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hey everyone Have anybody been to one of TG businesses. They write here about farms and a corporations they have. Are there any former TG member who has been working there? How does it look? Its not only about schools I guess they make hell a lot of money doing business.

The news of Amdi Pedersen's retreat on Fisher Island has caused visitors here to focus their comments on the issue of TG leadership. Important though this may be, perhaps there is scope to reconsider other aspects of Tvind school life. My own experience includes a two-year stint in the TG as well as time spent in other employment capacities, initially as a volunteer at an 'efterskole.' This experience was extremely valuable for me and as a young person (early twenties) I learned a great deal. We travelled with our students, organised major cultural events such as the Christmas Concerts and 'sommerteater' and particpated in school-wide sports competitions. At no time were our students in any danger or exposed to any credible threat. I knew a number of TG members who have since left the TG, including Steen Thomsen, who presented himself then as a very different person from the author of his scathingly critical report. He was a very caring and committed, gifted teacher who made enormous differences in the students in his care. But I don't see things in the same way he does in his report. It is a great shame, and an even greater waste of talent that he has been left so embittered. I would welcome the opportunity to chat with him. Yes, there were many questions and issues which I raised before and during my time in the TG. These included educational methods, common time and common distribution and economy, cultural assumptions, lifestyle questions, the whole range, but the debates that ensued were worthwhile and contributed to important change in the TG, initally at my school but later on at others. But this did not stop our often socially and economically disadvantaged students from making tremendous strides in their personal development, and attaining creditworthy school grades at the end of the year or upon school-leaving. I was always proud of what my students were able to achieve at our school, and a number of my former students are still in frequent contact with me and have visited me since. My point is that MANY of the efterskole and DIE volunteers (where are you now?) who I knew at the time (late 80s,early 90s) made important contributions to TG and school life. Persistent questioning and argument paid off, right up the chain of command. Many of the prominent persons and leaders of the TG have been 'demonised' by articles on this site and comments by guestbook contributors butI knew many of those named as people willing both to listen and to make often quite radical changes to their mindsets. A number of the claims and insinuations made by articles on this site are totaly wide of the mark and border on scandalous. They are often sensationalist and geared solely to provoke a negative reaction. They fail to tell the whole story, or even a fair proportion of it. The TG is an experiment in living. Yes, I realise we are talking about peoples' lives but experiments are by their very nature imperfect and subject to change. Perhaps I have laid myself open to criticism. Fair enough, but I would like to reorient this debate to focus on school life and the benefits gained by students at the schools in Denmark. I look forward to further comments.

Tomas' (or Amdi's) use of the Native American story is doubly offensive to me, because I know it is truly a Native American story; I remember reading it recently somewhere else. It's another case of Tvind's twisting of somebody else's story to suit its own needs as it sees fit, when it really doesn't make any sense in the context.

Funnily enough, the story about wolves and hate and love is a story presented to the Teachers' Group not so long ago by Mr. Mogens Amdi Petersen himself; - one of his ways, promoting himself as the wise old Godfather, whilst sitting in his tower (another of his "Fisher Islands"), contemplating, gazing at and embracing in his endless Love all them small, small, belligerent people under him, and considering all their small, small thoughts. So, Thomas, when did you sit in that meeting with your Great Master? And where? Now, please inform us properly. Or at least tell your students about who is behind you and above you - and them. Tell them when you went away for one of your meetings with Mr. Amdi Petersen and heard his babble. There is A LOT you will need to tell your students about yourself and "your" school. If you don't, then please stop all your softspoken shite on this site until the moment you really open up. Just tell frankly about the power structure of the Teachers' Group. That is what you owe your students. Start by telling them the true history of why you forward the "Native American story", as cited by you. Just to make a beginning. After that, get yourself out of the Tvind Cult, and get a life in freedom. (You will not need to lie anymore, not even to your students). By the way, the "Native American story" was sent to you, you mention. By whom? Name? And are you sure the story hasn't been produced by your Master himself? (He sometimes writes such stories to make himself mysterious and impressive.) I feel sure you also remember other texts by Amdi Petersen, Thomas? Remember all the times you have had even big problems finding head and tail in his texts as they are most often not at all as clear as the one presented by you on this site? I guess you realise readers on this site understand the wolf-hate-and-love-text as a way of once again pushing off any criticism? ONE THING: I DO NOT HATE YOU. I know how you are trapped as a TG member, but YOU are the one to break your chains, yourself. And just this advice-people will not carry on trusting you if you don't get to terms with your inner Self.

Well, let me finish my epistle from last night, (3rd down, below... somehow the ending got cut off).. remember, old father Christmas is jolly and fat... put the money in his kettle, NOT the pot of that grim, skinny Dane, Amid P...

"except it is almost impossible to change it if you are in TG, because you will have no means to it and that creates frustration among a lot of people."

BINGO!!!! DING! DING! DING!

You win a cookie:)

And why do you think that the TG has been set up this way? You are getting there my friend, keep on working on it, you will be out of Tvind in no time...

Hatred or love. The tale still makes sense for all of us

From the Native American story you've shared with us, (Tomas, I'm assuming?), I see that you interpret the actions of those of us who question Tvind's activities as "hatred." I find it interesting and curious that you leap to that interpretation... that it appears to you that we are acting out of hate, instead of ... common sense, or a general acknowledgement that there is a (BIG) problem we wish to see 'righted,' or even reasoned 'outrage' --with the explanations for the reasonableness of that outrage appearing right in front of us on this site, if not having been gleaned from our own experiences!!! I believe outrage can be channeled logically and deliberately , as most of the persons contributing stories to this website are expressing themselves logically, and factually. I see hatred as being blind, uncontrolled and unreasoning.

For myself, I don't identify my feelings toward Tvind, or any of it's programs, or Tvindies in general, or even Amdi, or the TG bigwigs, as hatred. As a former teacher, I guess I feel the same way about them, as I would a group of potentially unmanageable 'behavior disordered' students . I acknowledge the history and I appraise the realities of the current behavior. I am always careful to remember to acknowledge whatever the humanity and vulnerability and strengths and goodness of those subjects might be, as well as potential areas where those subjects could act in ways that would be hurtful to themselves or others, and I respond accordingly. Note that living in denial of any of the issues, OR living in hatred of the subjects, does nothing to assist either them in growing, or me in my ability to work beneficially with them. In fact, I would ask you to notice that this approach has nothing at all to do with hatred. It is simply a realistic, mature (and professional) response.

Well, enough of this, tonight... I wish you all (you, too, Tomas, really!)a Merry Christmas/God Jul, and a peaceful New Year. May all the work you do in service to your fellow human beings be bright, ethical, honestly offered, productive, culturally sensitive, and genuinely beneficial to its intended recipients, wherever they are... And remember... old father Christmas is jolly and fat,

"Whould you get angry if someone start to demand where you spend your private money?"

I certainly would, particularly if my co-workers demanded that I put my money into some shit like Flleseje...

NO you did not get it, no one will demand you to put your money into anywhere unless you want it yourself. I mean you get your wages and you have your own right without giving any explanations to spend your own earned money into whatever you want to. TG members take their wages and place them into their own created fund. Then they spend these money (their own money) to whatever they feel like. They build a school or start a project, buy an appartement in Miami etc. What I want to say is if I am in TG I would get insulted when someone start to demand from me to account on my own wages. Ok I am not talking here about funds they got from the state. Basically Tg is not about money it is about a life style and everyone is free to choose what life you want to leave, except it is almost impossible to change it if you are in TG, because you will have no means to it and that creates frustration among a lot of people.

Isn't it funny that whenever the Tvindies run out of arguments they start focusing on our oh so destructive "hate" toward them?

I for one am against Tvind out of love for my fellow man, my wish is that as few people as possible (pref. none!) get sucked in and exploited by them.

Merry X-mas to you all!

Chief Tomas speaks with forked tongue. Ugh.

Yes, much better to tell stories about wolves than address the questions and problems about the TG....btw, another good story apropos of the TG is Animal Farm....especially the poor horse who always tried to work harder and ended up going to the knacker.....Lars

A little story we got sent to us at CCTG that I would like to share with you all.

* The Two Wolves Within *

An old Grandfather said to his grandson, who came to him with anger at a friend who had done him an injustice... "Let me tell you a story. I too, at times, have felt great hate for those who have taken so much, with no sorrow for what they do. But hate wears you down, and does not hurt your enemy. It's like taking poison and wishing your enemy would die. I have struggled with these feelings many times. It is as if there are two wolves inside me. One is good and does no harm. He lives in harmony with all around him and does not take offense when no offense was intended. He will only fight when it is right to do so, and in the right way. But...the other wolf... ah! The littlest thing will send him into a fit of temper. He fights everyone, all of the time, for no reason. He cannot think, because his anger and hate are so great. It is helpless anger, for his anger will change nothing. Sometimes it is hard to live with these two wolves inside me, for both of them try to dominate my spirit." The boy looked intently into his Grandfather's eyes and asked, "Which one wins, Grandfather?" The Grandfather smiled and quietly said, "The one I feed." -- A Native American tale told many times around the Sacred Fire

Annsofi, I was never a member of the TG, but I did teach for a short time at a Tvind run school in the US... the responses you got are not at all unusual... After telling one of my very best friends the story of my experiences, his response was: "Well, if what you say is true..." I felt like my believability was forever diminished in his eyes...( and with his comment, my trust in that friendship was forever diminished in my eyes...)... My youngest sister has (upon being shown Tvindalert and having read through much of it), confessed to me that when I got home from Ake Pecha, she remembers thinking that I'd lost it... that I'd gone crazy. I learned to be secretive about my having worked at Ake Pecha, especially during job interviews, because how could I admit that I had worked with children in such a strange and neglectful place.

But the story is so crazy and unbelievable, isn't it? The Tvindalert site has helped me so much to regain a sense that I really did see what I thought I saw, that I really did go through what I went through, and that what my fellow American teacher pieced together about what appeared to be happening, WAS happening... We weren't crazy!!!

It is so sad that we all went through this... most people who get involved in Tvind programming are very well intentioned going into it.. yet many have been really hurt by their involvement with Tvind.

I am glad there is this forum for sharing experiences and ideas... it sounds like it's been as helpful for you as it's been for me... Marianna

For many years I was alone with my toughts, and when I told people about my experienses as a teacher at Tvind, the reaction was mistrust: "noo,could it be that bad..aren`t you overreacting?!". Well, I wasn`t, and now after the last times "bad" publicity and after hours of reading these sites I know I`m not alone either. Unfortunately. Annsofi

I have been involved in several Danida projekts, and the salaries payed for tvind members involvement in tvind projects suprise me. Only the most experienced and well educated in the projects I have been involved in, can match the saleries that the Tvind organisation pays its project-leaders. I wounder why somebody would pay someone with only pour competances that kind of money. Wouldn't they be better spend in humanitarien projekts right away, insted of being transferred to other foundations ore companies, in such a suspicious way?

Richard Arnaud (France)

"Whould you get angry if someone start to demand where you spend your private money?"

I certainly would, particularly if my co-workers demanded that I put my money into some shit like Flleseje...

Yes, but if this is even in part from clothes donations this is essentially *other people's* money.

And:

* what 'fund'? * what exactly is the money used for? * how accountable is it? * do people giving old clothes in Europe realise their gift is not supporting a project leader, but instead is going to Tvind? * if they did, would they still give? * why isn't any of this stated publicly and on their boxes?

 

 

yes, it is so that TG members wages go to the fund, but this is their own choice. Tell me when you get your salary arne't you free to choose what to do with it? Whould you get angry if someone start to demand where you spend your private money?

On the question of how much money Tvind 'makes' from its projects, I don't think anyone has mentioned the financing of Teachers Group Project leaders. As I understand it (any way, this is what I have been told) the project leaders are paid quite high salaries in line with the kind of sums qualified aid workers abroad usually get - this is perfectly normal. These salaries are financed from the sale of old clothes in Europe and eastern Europe. Again, so far, quite normal.

Where DAPP and co differ from the usual NGO world is that the project leaders never actually see the money. Because of the 'common time, common economy' principle, which is all highly principled and very laudable, they have opetd to be paid pocket money and expenses rather than a salary. If the salaries are paid out as project costs on paper, in practice the money either stays with or is returned to one of the Tvind financial funds somewhere. With, what is it?, say 250 project leaders each earning say $60,000 that is a lot of money with big accountability and tax implications.

This could also have something to do with the persistent reports of suitcases stuffed with money being carried by TG members by plane from southern Africa to Veije, as claimed in the Danish TV documentary this year. There certainly seems to be something to explain here.

Any comments?

 

heh, well I have to agree that you are right on that one.

But even so, it does show that tvind is not making 'mega profit' from these volunteer programs.

They are probably breaking even, which is what they should officially be doing

 

 

 

Actually opportunity cost is the cost of doing one thing as opposed to doing another. So the correct use of this would be the amount of money you could earn during the eight months of working with Tvind in the US minus the costs of supporting yourself in the US and Africa for 14 months which you estimate as $7000.

Assume that you have a 40 per week job that pays $7/hr (fairly low pay by the way). In eight months you would earn 40 * 7 * 34.5 weeks = $9,660 so the opportunity cost of doing a CCTG program versus going on your own is $1660.

But then again you don't get the "educational experience" of fundraising... :)

Lars

i dont think so even in denmark you can make the cv look good, you just dont mention tvinds name.

only Denmark and 50/50% sweeden would recognise tvind,humana, any other country mainly uk/france/germany etc would not know or care usa only might recognise planet aid, I have read Harvard reports and lecture notes, praising humana as 1 ngo in a list of many,

ON a cv the name is fine. if your worried dont say tvind, which you would not be working for anway, you would have been working for adpp or dapp which have quite good names around the world,

In denmark or sweeden you worked for adpp , none in dnemark knows who that is, not the recruiting office anyway, or you were simply working in africa for a foreign orgnaisation in partnership with major ngo's

"Doing this program also looks very good on your cv for future jobs you might apply for"

Not if any of those future jobs happen to be in Northern Europe!!!

This is what your cv might look like to an employer in say, Denmark:

1993-1997 Smallville High (honor roll, debating society, football team) 1997-2001 Metro College (dean's list, peer counseling) 2001-2004 Cult Membership (hmm...) 2004-...

 

Another point. (see also post below this counter to lars)

To those saying that the figures quoted as costing the participant if he were to live himself for those 14 months , not being met by tvind since their costs are so much lower.

Basically that is not the point. I would guess some of you know what opportunity cost is? It means that it does not matter what the costs to tvind are (or how cheaply they can put you through the program).

what matters is the cost to each individual if he were not doing this program. The cost of living yourself own flat (very low quality sub standard) 300 a month. Sub standard food, 200 a month. 500 a month x 8 is 4,000 , + the cost of 6 months you would be in africa food/accomodation minus the glorius sunshine people/women. 2,000 = total 6,000 (not including if u were to take own flight to africa then+1,000 =7,000) That is the cost to live by yourself 8 months and then go to africa for 6 months.

Now the cost of working with tvind for a year. If you are in the 75% who does not pay initial fee to join program then your costs so far for 8 months are 0. you are also in the 75% that sucks at street fundraising and does some invented job, your financial cost for those 5 or 6 weeks easy work?? 0

The real cost then to joining the program for most participants could be noted as 0, and the opportunity cost of not joining as 7,000

(please see post below this for other important general info)

DL ex volunteer dvldvl@hotmail.com

To Lars and others

You are saying then that financially you are getting half of what you pay. Now that is in theory (according to your figures) if people are actually meeting those targets. Have you been a volunteer with this organisation??

I have. no one makes these targets maybe one person a year out of 900. 75% dont pay the initial program costs (more pay in usa programs very little pay the initial fee in denmark)

And for fundraising, again most people are lucky if they make 25% of the target on the street. Most of the time they suck so bad the school has to make other plans and effectivley invent jobs which do not exisit so the people can finish their fundraising. they pay the students fees from these 'invented jobs' thus incuring more financial loss. Typical job might be painting a few walls in one of the schools which dont need painting. Do this for a few weeks and you have earned the easiest $3,000 you will in your entire life.

So all in all, I would say, if you average it out, tvind makes no profit form these schools, (a loss on most students) the volunteers themselves do get a useful learning experience and they dont not have to be degree educated or whatever to get it .

Alternative gap year programs for volunteering/teaching abroad can cost up to $3000 for only 12 weeks. (how much profit do these organisations make form it???)

Doing this program also looks very good on your cv for future jobs you might apply for.I know very many people form my time as a volunteer who have gone on to reach the highest tier in their chosen industry. And their first break came because of this 1 year gap year with Humana. When your 23 just finished your degree and then gone to Africa for a year and helped manage a project or been responsible for educating 2,000 aids victims that makes for some good employment prospects.

DL

It would be interesting to know the cost per squarmeter the schools pay rent to the owners of their schoolbuildings. How big percentage from the schools' budget goes to paying rent? And further, who are the owners of the schoolbuildings? A fund, a company...owned by whom? I a w:Who takes care of that money? Any headmaster from any Tvind-school feeling urge to answer?

Sigge

 

 

Oops...the formatting got messed up. Here are my estimates on the direct costs of a CCTG program.

Food $ 480 Flights $ 1,650 Housing $ 752 Utilities/Phone $ 200 Vaccinations $ 150 Misc $ 600 subtotal $ 3,832

35 percent overhead $ 1,341 TOTAL $ 5,173

I'm really not sure how one should cost the "educational costs" of a CCTG program since it appears that the majority of the education is the TG's experiential education, i.e., fund-raising, housekeeping, that doesn't cost the TG anything and is essential for the continued functioning of the place.

Regards......Lars

I am not arguing that TG programs are not less expensive but that their costs are so low (after all a point of pride is getting things for free) that there is plenty of money account for.

For example, take a CCTG program of 14 months. 6 months of prep in Yreka, CA, 6 months in Africa and 2 months back in Yreka. The cost of the program is $3,300 and participants are expect to raise an additional $7000 for a total of $10,300. This money covers food, accomindations, any "educational" materials, flights to Africa, vaccinations. According to the CCTG website, Humana covers the expenses in Africa....so let's do the math.

Food = $2 per day * 30 days * 8 months Flight = $1650 (what I could find for a flight from SFO to Harare, Zimbabwee - I'm sure there are cheaper ways to go) Housing = I found a listing for a two bedroom appartment in Yreka for $376 to judge what "market rate" is. Assume 2 people per room = $94 per month * 8 months = $752 Utilities/Phone = $25 per month * 8 months = 200 Vaccinations = I don't really know, how about $150 Misc. = 600

This comes out to a grand total of $3832 of direct costs. Assume 35 percent overhead (to cover admin and outreach) and you still only get about $5200 or about half of what people pay and fundraise

Of course these figures are not the actual cost structure of CCTG but I bet they are close. You can fiddle around a bit but still have a lot left.

Lars

The fact of the matter is that price is really beyond the point here. The difference between Tvind and most other Development charities is that Tvind has a sect-like structure complete with an old guru at the top sippin' cocktails on his penthouse terrace and laughing his ass over both all the idealisitc young volunteers and all the old wanna-be "hippie" teachers that unknowingly or not fund his lavish lifestyle.

Yours,

*<:-)

Hmm, looks like you guys learned your maths at the Moscow School of Economics back in "the day"...

Hello

I like that we are talking mathematics here. Food, housing, transport, airtravel etc costs some money for sure. If you look upon what it costs to do other volunteer programs is it very cheap to do it at one of the Travelling Folk High schools. Check out volunteer programs by yourseelves. You have for ex. Cross cultural solutions that charges a considerable bigger amount for much shorter programs

 

hmmm...but if paid the entire amount in cash you would miss out (gasp) on the "learning experience" of fundraising......

a couple more comments on the math here, while it may cost 300 pounds for a flat and 200 pounds for food on your own these are not the costs that accrue to a TG school. I've always heard the figure of $2 bucks a day for food and who knows how much mortage the TG is paying itself for the housing....during fundraising its free. So the "cost" to Tvind is hardly 4000 pounds unless you include the salaries of the TG members who are busy recruiting the next crop of volunteers.....

 

too many lies and myths around here, most people just exagerate to feel important or make themself seem 'cool'

Here are some basic truths about costs/fundraising etc

Usually you pay 2,500 pounds or abou $3,500 to join a school in Denmark for 14 months. However, 75% of people do not pay this they do netup whcih involves doing a very very easy job for a month or 2 within the organisation , or they get a scholarship and start right away paying nothing.

Now that leaves the fundraising whcih is about 3,000 pounds,. Instead of paying that amount which most young people could never afford you can fundraise your money, (If you payd it in cash you would not have to fundraise). No matter how bad people say it is, it is a fact it has to be done, the schools needs this 3,000 for your participation in the program. You know this beofre you join.

Now comes the good bit.why complain or moan, saying you are being ripped off.?? Think about it. 14 months is a long time, 8 months in Denmark 6 months africa. If you live in own flat or house back home how much is the rent?? in Uk will cost me at least 300 a month for 1 bedroom flat. For food 200 a month. That is 500 a month x 8 (8 months Denmark) = 4,000 pounds. Then you still have the housing in Africa (cheaper i know but still...) and also you are given a salary more than the locals earn $200 a month or so for your food and essential items.

The total cost of all this to tvind is around 5,000 pounds. You are fundraising about 3,500 (most people dont reach their target or do netup type jobs which over pay and are very generous for the fundraising) On average then each person i would say fundraises 1,000 pounds on the street and makes up rest of money doing easy jobs within the organisation.

so that is 4,000 extra tvind is spending on each person to do this course just in housing/food costs. That is not taking into account the costs of the education/special events like the new year concert/cost of having teahers helping/listening to your whining all the time.

In conclusion, if you look at those basic facts , you will see the truth. and not make up lies about how tvind is taking your money

DL ex volunteer Denmark

 

 

The Appeals Court of Western Denmark just ordered DRH-P Sejrens Vej to pay back 4.9 million DKR it received as education funding. Turns out the students spent too much time fundraising and to little hitting the books! Similar cases against the other DRH's likely.

SWINDLE This case of a "human" and "caring" schoolleader, Amdi Petersen, who wants to do good for the poor peole of this world is totally absurd. If any smart american,(Shapiro)laywer can convince the world about the fact, that Amdi is (or ever was)concerned and dedicated to do good, then there is no hope for jusitice, then "truth" has become a meaningless term.If Shapiro even dares to simulate that Amdi is a man of honour, he will tell you a lie. I believe that you americans praise freedom, and therefore it should be hard for any american laywer to defend a man like Amdi.Being a teacher at one of Tvinds schools is the same as giving up your personal freedom. Amdis leadership of Tvind is based on authority and mystique.Few memebers of the staff on the schools have seen Amdi alive for many years. Tvind is a finacial cult with Amdi as the guru with no democracy in his leadership.So please dont fool yourself (with the help of Shapiro) to think otherwise. Amdi has been hiding in his luxury around the world for years. He is good for millions and millions payed by the danish state to his school enterprises, but the money has instead been spent to benefit Amdis luxury life. This the danish police authorities has proof of. He also has generated the salaries of loyal teachers and the explotation of the third world.In Denmark according to danish law Amdi is charged with criminal transactions with tax-payed funds amounting to 75 million kroner. Amdi claims that he only has a salary pr year amounting to 70.000 kr! His lying.

I have seen one of Tvinds schools in Ulfborg together with my son, and it was obvious that very little money had been spent on the maintenance of the school buildings and facilities.It was characterized by old furniture, outdated computers and no cleaning. Compared to other similar boading schools, it was obvious that no money was spent on nice surrondings for the kids on the school.Also the teachers stab is limited with too few teachers for too many pupils. Now we understand why.To many people in Denmark have no trust in The Tvind"concept" of "helping" the third world, so few danish teachers want to be a part of that"concept". The money for maintenance was sent to Fishers Island(Amdi and Kirsten have a luxury compartment there) and to Amdis African farm in Zimbabwe. Believe me this man is a fraud! If Shapiro can convinse the judges of America about this mans integrity he has indeed fooled the world again. Congratulations Shapiro and America: the land of the free!! blentz@ofir.dk

Why are the row of positive, or maybe a bit more balanced comments just deleted??

Why is it that in 9 of 10 cases I CANNOT see any new posts here even when I delete all my cookies, disconnect from the internet, clear all temporary files and log back on?

Hello to everyone, I wanted to add something to the last posted message here. I agree, one important thing is to see clear facts rather than copying opinions from newspaper journalists. Another thing I want to give you to think of. I have been for several years in the TG. I know, what my very private money is used for. I know, that I do not have a car, others have. I do not have a house, others do. So what? Do I need it? Honestly, no, I don't. Do businessmen talk business flight rather then tourist class? Yes. Do they have a weekend house to relax after a stressfull week? Yes, they do. Why don't you let the people have, what they want. I do not feel oppressed nor harmed in any way. What the TG has given me is a job I am really happy about, not a job just to make money. And one of the best things is: My job makes lifes in Africa better. Which one of you can say the same about your job? I also do not start blaming people working at Shell, that they are destroying the nature, or telling people off, who work for the cigarette companies. Think about it, guys, bye for now...

Boring, turbo capitalistic and so on soap a lot of soap and nothing will probably happen. The smell is putrid. Nosferatus in search of blood. no, no blood at all, we will smile we afloated in a sea of chacals. Billions of wishes will fall into the mud, and freedom,that one that you don't know, will be dancing around. So many wishing a dead that will never happen. Freedom is other language, the language you'll never understand. Long life teachers group and keep smilling. (amdi has no interest to bush, he can't bomb the wind mill) Long life dear comrades, la victoria es nuestra e lo sera!

Tvind is not a cult! If it were a cult, it would be much better organised. I am a former solidaity worker. When I wanted to join the travelling folk high school, I had to call them everyday for one month. Everyday, I was told "we call you back tonight", or "we'll call you back tomorow". When you want to join a cult, you call and the next day you are in. Also, half of my team left after the first couple of weeks. You don't leave a cult that easily. Their study programm is a joke, the job the solidarity workers do in Africa is mainly useless. But if you count that we fundraise 44000 kroners and paid 20 000 kroners of school fees, that is not that much for study, travel, medecine (preventive and full curative treatment for malaria in one of the best hospital of Luanda) food and accomodation for one year. That is 5000 kroners a month, I would have spent more staying unemployed at home. Anyway, the main caracteristic of a cult is religion, and that was never mentionned neither during the studies nor during the volunteer work. When some members of my team asked for the authorisation to go to the (catholic) church on sunday morning, it was allowed, of course, even if the teachers were protestants or atheists. There were also muslim, jewish and budhists students in the school, and no religious discrimination whatsoever. I have to disagree with their working method, that can be sometimes a bit dogmatic, and with the way they treated some workers in Angola when I was there. I also think that this whole solidarity workers programm has no other goal than to recruite members for the teacher group, because they can't really put an add in the newspaper saying "come and join our comunity, share your salary with the group and so on". People join the teacher group only when they have been in contact with it for a while and decide that it is the kind of life they want for themselve. I didn't think it was how I wanted to live (and I had some "frictions" with some project leaders in Angola) so I went back home. It is true that fundraising and promoting the school and the project takes a big part of the study time, but on the other hand, I don't know any organisation that can survive without promotion, especially if it is independent. It might be a fraud, it might be corrupted, it is disorganised, it is not professional,I couldn't stand that stupid rule about no drug no alcohol (strange, for a cult), I could have spent that year more efficiently but I also had some great times and met some wonderful people among the other solidarity workers and even one amazing teacher and a very honest, human and helpful project leader in Angola. For me, this whole organisation is pretty bad, but it is not a cult.

Tvind is not a cult! If it were a cult, it would be much better organised. I am a former solidaity worker. When I wanted to join the travelling folk high school, I had to call them everyday for one month. Everyday, I was told "we call you back tonight", or "we'll call you back tomorow". When you want to join a cult, you call and the next day you are in. Also, half of my team left after the first couple of weeks. You don't leave a cult that easily. Their study programm is a joke, the job the solidarity workers do in Africa is mainly useless. But if you count that we fundraise 44000 kroners and paid 20 000 kroners of school fees, that is not that much for study, travel, medecine (preventive and full curative treatment for malaria in one of the best hospital of Luanda) food and accomodation for one year. That is 5000 kroners a month, I would have spent more staying unemployed at home. Anyway, the main caracteristic of a cult is religion, and that was never mentionned neither during the studies nor during the volunteer work. When some members of my team asked for the authorisation to go to the (catholic) church on sunday morning, it was allowed, of course, even if the teachers were protestants or atheists. There were also muslim, jewish and budhists students in the school, and no religious discrimination whatsoever. I have to disagree with their working method, that can be sometimes a bit dogmatic, and with the way they treated some workers in Angola when I was there. I also think that this whole solidarity workers programm has no other goal than to recruite members for the teacher group, because they can't really put an add in the newspaper saying "come and join our comunity, share your salary with the group and so on". People join the teacher group only when they have been in contact with it for a while and decide that it is the kind of life they want for themselve. I didn't think it was how I wanted to live (and I had some "frictions" with some project leaders in Angola) so I went back home. It is true that fundraising and promoting the school and the project takes a big part of the study time, but on the other hand, I don't know any organisation that can survive without promotion, especially if it is independent. It might be a fraud, it might be corrupted, it is disorganised, it is not professional,I couldn't stand that stupid rule about no drug no alcohol (strange, for a cult), I could have spent that year more efficiently but I also had some great times and met some wonderful people among the other solidarity workers and even one amazing teacher and a very honest, human and helpful project leader in Angola. For me, this whole organisation is pretty bad, but it is not a cult.

Tvind is not a cult! If it were a cult, it would be much better organised. I am a former solidaity worker. When I wanted to join the travelling folk high school, I had to call them everyday for one month. Everyday, I was told "we call you back tonight", or "we'll call you back tomorow". When you want to join a cult, you call and the next day you are in. Also, half of my team left after the first couple of weeks. You don't leave a cult that easily. Their study programm is a joke, the job the solidarity workers do in Africa is mainly useless. But if you count that we fundraise 44000 kroners and paid 20 000 kroners of school fees, that is not that much for study, travel, medecine (preventive full curative treatment for malaria in one of the best hospital of Luanda) food and accomodation for one year. That is 5000 kroners a month, I would have spent more staying unemployed at home. Anyway, the main caracteristic of a cult is religion, and that was never mentionned neither during the studies nor during the volunteer work. When some members of my team asked for the authorisation to go to the (catholic) church on sunday morning, it was allowed, of course, even if the teachers were protestants or atheists. There were also muslim, jewish and budhists students in the school, and no religious discrimination whatsoever. I have to disagree with their working method, that can be sometimes a bit dogmatic, and with the way they treated some workers in Angola when I was there. I also think that this whole solidarity workers programm has no other goal than to recruite members for the teacher group, because they can't really put an add in the newspaper saying "come and join our comunity, share your salary with the group and so on". People join the teacher group only when they have been in contact with it for a while and decide that it is the kind of life they want for themselve. I didn't think it was how I wanted to live (and I had some "frictions" with some project leaders in Angola) so I went back home. It is true that fundraising and promoting the school and the project takes a big part of the study time, but on the other hand, I don't know any organisation that can survive without promotion, especially if it is independent. It might be a fraud, it might be corrupted, it is disorganised, it is not professional,I couldn't stand that stupid rule about no drug no alcohol (strange, for a cult), I could have spent that year more efficiently but I also had some great times and met some wonderful people among the other solidarity workers and even one amazing teacher and a very honest, human and helpful project leader in Angola. For me, this whole arganisation is pretty bad, but it is not a cult.

I'm sorry sir, I misunderstood your post!

Could you maybe point out the stuff on this website that is, in your opinion "crap"? Bear in mind that the vast majority of the articles here have originally been written and documented by Danish newspaper reporters.

There was a really fuzzy picture of Amdi in his orange prison suit getting into a U.S. Marshalls bus in today's papers. It was taken from behind though so for the casual observer there was no way of telling that it was in fact him.

To the last poster

The great majority of the documments on this website are in fact straight from the Danish and European press - and not "crap" that we ourselves dream up when we have nothing better to do.......

To the person commenting on what I originally said, Mister "Naivety Is Bliss": Maybe it was unclear that I want people to clearly see the BAD facts about Tvind. And I think that these facts are more than enough proof (and better) of illegitimacy than insults and whatnot. It's just that when there's a lot of crap mixed in, people get fed up and stop wanting to sort through for the facts - which is, come to think of it, how I feel about this very webpage. I know there's some great incriminating truth here - but I also know there's a bunch of bullshit and then I get all frustrated and lazy to sort it out. I'm not naive and I'm not a "tvindie." (You can imagine a shudder here.) I apologize for being vague. (But, as a case in point, look how quick you were to accuse me of not being a "good guy" when I purposely stated no affiliation to or against Tvind?) You don't think a letter writing campaign (fact-based) or something could help now that Amdi's in custody?

I think amdi will give up and go back to Denmark Danish Prisons are far better and humane than American ones

Going down Going down Going down Going down Going down Going down goodbye tvind empire

Two of the things I noticed among my fellow theachers, at my relatively short time at Tvind some years ago: THE ABSOLUTE FEELING OF DOING THE RIGHT THING - and - THE FEAR OF UNCONTROLLRD CONTACT WITH PEOPLE ON "THE OUTSIDE". Thats not a healthy combination. I can imagine that there is a lot of cynism high up in the hierarchy. But I can also imagine that since those people probably only relate to and relay on a small static group, they might think that they are doing THE RIGHT THING....To the end.

To the person posting 6 posts down:

How are you going to convice anybody in the US of your version of the facts?

Consider how awful Tvind's public relations are in semi-socialist countries such as Denmark and Sweden in spite of all the work you have done to change this over the last 30 years.

And now you expect to suddenly convince the right-wing federal government of the United States that "they don't know the truth about Tvind" and that you are all "good guys"? If naivity is bliss...

How will Tvind be able to function with its entire leadership behind bars (as will probably be the case in ooh, let's say 6 months time?)

IT WON'T!!!

The Tvind/Humana scam is finally drawing to a happy close!

Can't wait to see the photographs of Amdi in orange

At a danish tvind school a debate, defending tvind, has just started out in english - take a look and join the party.

www.bogense-efterskole.dk/nh/guestbook.php

I have no doubt

That the Truth will out.

:) :) :) :)

A few thoughts: 1. There is a lot to be said about "Tvind," the Teacher's Group, Humana People to People, etc. There is a lot of valid criticism. Unfortunately, there is also a lot of mindless insult and slanderous speculation which muddles everything up and makes us all in-credible, be us pro or anti "Tvind." It also makes it completely frustrating for those who are uncertain. I think...that the facts should be enough. 2. There are a lot of People involved in this whole thing, most of whom are good people. Again, the issue with the mindless insults: Cult-members are generally viewed as victims. For those of you who truly believe that "Tvind" is a cult, why constantly insult the victims? 3. This whole Amdi thing - I find it highly amusing and fascinating, but not particularly hopeful. Whether you agree with is or not, the TG is smart; it's actually a really nice idea. Much as I'd like to just wipe out the whole thing, just to put my mind at ease (oh, but the doubts creep in, is it worth trading one life for another, if one person benefits from the DIs, if one family's life will be left unsupported, what is it worth?), but I fear it's not even possible. 4. Perhaps all of our time and energy would be better spent right now sendin FACTS where they count. The U.S. does not realize exactly how far this all goes. They just think they've got another simple tax fraud on their hands. And what else, exactly, would you charge Amdi Petersen of? All I can think of that helps is stuff I learned from Humana - If you want to get something done, don't just stand around talking about it, don't let Them do it - do it yourselves. Organize as a group, gather your strength, don't be afraid of not "knowing how."

That's about all, folks.

The LA Times has an article about Amdi today!!

Go to: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-000013863feb23.story

If that doesn't work, go to www.latimes.com, and put Amdi's name into the "search" box on the upper left corner of their home page!

Transcript (and translation) of a debate broadcast by the Swedish Broadcasting Corporation as part of the morning news feature on February 21st, 2002:

RADIO REPORTER: More than 2000 yellow UFF file://Humana People to People// containers are put up all over Sweden and Swedes give away tons of clothes each year by dropping them in these containers. But the question is: does the money really go to development aid projects in poor countries or does it end up in the pockets of a Danish suspected swindler? Our next subject this morning is the Swedish UFF and Danish Tvind.

Last weekend Mogens Amdi Petersen, leader of the Tvind movement, was arrested after having been wanted by the police for almost a year. He is suspected of having swindled the Danish state of 75 million DKK in taxes and he has spent the last 20 years in exile living in an enormous luxury appartment on an island in Florida. There are connections between the Tvind movement in Denmark and Swedish UFF, since UFF was once started by members of the core team of Tvind, what is called "the Teachers group". This is the reason that Swedish UFF now is being questioned more and more.

I say good morning to Nuri Kino, freelance journalist who has looked into UFF and its business.

NURI KINO: Good morning.

RADIO REPORTER: What would you say is the strongest evidence that there is a connection between UFF and Amdi Petersen?

NURI KINO: Well, there are for instance all the documents in our possession showing transactions, other verifications and different kinds of communication - letters, emails, etc. Not to mention the hundreds of people we have talked to during our time of investigation, like defectors from the core team, and current members of the core team who don't dare to go public but who feel it is high time it is exposed that Swedish UFF is controlled by Amdi Petersen and his closest collaborators in the Teachers group.

RADIO REPORTER: The Teachers group is controlling Swedish UFF, do you mean?

NURI KINO: Absolutely.

RADIOREPORTER: Last year the Swedish people gave away almost nine thousand tons of clothes to UFF, dropped into these containers, and many people buy things from the UFF stores all around Sweden in the belief that the money will go to aid to developing countries. Are all these people being cheated?

NURI KINO: Yes, they are. First of all, the nine thousand tons are only what is known to us. And the Swedish people have, in my opinion, entrusted Swedish UFF with the administration of funds because these clothes are turned into money and we are talking about at least - and that is an absolute minimum - 25 SEK per kilogram, so if you ask me, I would say that we are being cheated.

RADIO REPORTER: How much money does it add up to?

NURI KINO: It is hard to estimate as long as Swedish UFF does not open its books, but we are talking about at least 200 million SEK a year.

RADIO REPORTER: Trond Narvestad is the president of Swedish UFF. I say good morning to you.

TROND NARVESTAD: Good morning.

RADIO REPORTER: What influence does the Teachers group have over Swedish UFF today?

TROND NARVESTAD: UFF in Sweden is controlled by our board of directors which is elected by our members at the annual meeting. Those who run UFF in Sweden are totally independent in relation to both the Teachers group and Tvind and also other UFF organizations internationally. That is to say, UFF in Sweden is part of the federation Humana People to People, but it is still an independent and self-governed organization. I just want to say ... when he mentioned these figures of 200 million SEK it is the kind of numbers that are taken completely out of the blue. We collect between eight and nine thousand tons a year. The amount 25 SEK per kilogram that was mentioned here, that is the donation value given by SFI file://a Swedish authority for control of fundraising projects// for the clothes we donate - not the actual turnover for the clothes ...

RADIO REPORTER: Well, maybe we should ... You were saying that UFF is an independent organization: Nuri Kino, what did your investigation show?

NURI KINO: First of all, "UFF in Sweden", as Trond Narvestad - who is Amdi Petersen's closest co-worker in Sweden - choose to call it, is a front organization in which the actual commercial business, the enterprise, is called "UFF in Stockholm". Noteably Trond Narvestad didn't mention that fact. Secondly, Trond Narvestad claims that the Teachers group is not in control, which makes it very remarkable that he, being the front figure of the Teachers group in Sweden, as recent as the autumn of 1999 wrote a letter to other - what shall we call them? - let's call them other "lifetime members" who have signed a lifelong contract binding them to the sect ...

RADIOREPORTER: Yes, and you brought the letter with you, didn't you? You have it here in the studio?

NURI KINO: Yes, among a number of other documents.

TROND NARVESTAD: Look, I would like to oppose to that. I am not a front figure of the Teachers group here in Sweden.

RADIO REPORTER: But let us hear the first few lines of this letter that Nuri Kino has brought.

NURI KINO: "To the Teachers group in Sweden: Concerning the issue on UFF as a member organization. What is UFF's purpose of the organizational structure in Sweden? 1. We want to secure the control over UFF's operation in Sweden, so that nobody can take over what we have achieved. 2. We want a good legal platform for UFF which does not jeopardize the Teachers group's money and which gives us the best financial and legal foundation for our work."

RADIO REPORTER: Trond Narvestad, what are your comments to this?

TROND NARVESTAD: Well, this is of course a private letter that I wrote some years ago, but what it says has to do with UFF's operation and how UFF should be able to keep the control of its own business. This was written with a major recruiting campaign at hand and we had ...

RADIOREPORTER: OK, but tell me, Trond Narvestad, why does it say "Teachers group" in the letter?

TROND NARVESTAD: It says so because some of the members of our board happen to be members of the Teachers group.

RADIOREPORTER: Are you yourself a member of the Teachers group?

TROND NARVESTAD: Not at the moment.

RADIOREPORTER: Have you been a member of the Teachers group?

TROND NARVESTAD: I have been a member, yes.

RADIOREPORTER: When did you leave?

TROND NARVESTAD: Well, there has been a somewhat vague transition period, you could say.

RADIOREPORTER: When did you last leave the Teachers group?

TROND NARVESTAD: No, but this is ... this is a completely private matter and ....

NURI KINO: It wasn't more than three months ago, Trond Narvestad, that you told me in an interview that both you and I know about the Teachers group and you said to me: "well, you know that I'm a member of the Teachers group."

TROND NARVESTAD: Yes, but I have been ...

NURI KINO: And now you are suddenly the president of UFF in Sweden.

TROND NARVESTAD: Yes, but is it so strange that we have changed presidents?

NURI KINO: And then it isn't the clothes from the Swedish people ...

TROND NARVESTAD: Now I'd like to ... Listen, I'd like to say something too. It is after all us that are being dragged through the mud here and now I'd like to say something too, because we are actually facing a major world campaign. We did have a tax debt - and we haven't tried to cover that up in any way - we have a tax debt and the members of our board were held responsible privately for this debt, and that's why this was a letter to those of our teachers who were on the board as an assurance that they wouldn't end up in a situation demanding that they pay with their own money for this. This happened many years ago. I would like to point out that Kino for instance said ... and that is actually very important now that we are discussing our development aid projects ... what it is that really comes out as a result of these clothes and what really comes out of the money we earn. And Kino has said when he interviewed our employees that we have very qualitative projects. Our Aids program is probably one of the best in the world. And I would like to point out that ...

RADIO REPORTER: But Nuri Kino's investigation does indeed show that a lot of the money doesn't go to development aid projects at all.

TROND NARVESTAD: Yes, but we are audited by a certified accountant, we have an approved account for the funds, we are controlled by the SFI. I can guarantee here and now that all of our profit and all the clothes we collect, we administer as best as we can in order to create projects that ...

RADIO REPORTER: But why won't you make your accounts public?

TROND NARVESTAD: But they are public, they are public.

RADIO REPORTER: Are all of your books public and open to everyone?

TROND NARVESTAD: All our accounts are of ... now is ...

RADIO REPORTER: Nuri Kino, what problems have you encountered when you have tried to investigate UFF?

NURI KINO: Swedish UFF doesn't want to answer questions about their accounts at all, and they refuse to share their accounting and their books with others. And we have given them quite a lot of opportunities to do so. Then it is the case of those small-scale projects Trond Narvestad mentions - they add up to 6 to 7 millions SEK and included in that amount is the support of other aid organizations money, a fact that Trond Narvestad knows very well.

TROND NARVESTAD: We receive minor contributions from other organizations but we ourselves contribute with 3 to 5 ...

NURI KINO: Trond! Just open the books for us and put and end to the whole discussion!

TROND NARVESTAD: We have opened the books.

NURI KINO: No, you have never done that, and besides ...

TROND NARVESTAD: You can go to our web site and review our accounting there.

NURI KINO: Trond! Trond! I'm sorry but in the annual report for fiscal year 2000, even at the very first page, when I discussed it page by page with you, together with Juan Flores, you had manipulated every single line, and you have admitted it to me, Trond, that you use double-entry book-keeping. Why do you do that?

TROND NARVESTAD: We don't use double-entry book-keeping ...

NURI KINO: You admitted it yourselves. Why?

TROND NARVESTAD: No, we don't use double-entry book-keeping... We use ... What we do is, we have UFF constructed as a number of local subdivisions all over the country. And that is why we have ...

NURI KINO: And according to Swedish law you may not use consolidated financial accounts for an organization constructed like yours.

TROND NARVESTAD: According to the SFI requirements we should use consolidated financial accounts ...

NURI KINO: You have told me that you only use SFI in order to legitimate your other operations.

TROND NARVESTAD: That isn't true.

RADIO REPORTER: We will have to wrap up this discussion now between Trond Narvestad, president of Swedish UFF, and Nuri Kino, freelance journalist. Finally, Nuri Kino, I would just like to ask you - those who shop in UFF's stores or put clothes in the containers, what conclusions should they draw from this discussion?

NURI KINO: Before people buy anything from UFF or give away their clothes, they should ask UFF in Sweden and - most importantly - the other UFF organizations, like UFF in Stockholm, to open their books.

RADIO REPORTER: And openly show the public where the money goes, you mean?

NURI KINO: Yes!

RADIO REPORTER: Thank you very much, Trond Narvestad, president of Swedish UFF, and Nuri Kino, freelance journalist.

 

What will the statement from the pro tvind folks be now that an US court found it reasnoble to keep amdi in prison. Maybee something like: The US is tourning aginst tvind, ore ,finally the us shown its real face. Wake up tvindies...now you got everybodies attention, and a once in a life time oppertunity to prove what wounders you a resposible for in the world. Now its time to show your cards. But you will not, and that teels me everyting i need to know about tvind. Grow up, and be responsible for your actions.

 

whoops, take a look down to the 1), 2), 3), post below... apparently someone was queued up just before me, the "Palestinian" commentator... I had meant to refer to the post just below the Palestinian commentator's comment (which had been the last one posted when I wrote MY post), and the comment just below THAT. My reference to "you may be right", was in reference to Amdi possibly being granted bail, because in the US money does tend to talk...

I guess not today, though... Maybe there is some hope, yet...

Gade, 10 Shapiro, Zero

:) :) :) :) :)

Score one for the good guys!

Amdi was denied bail today which means that he will have to remain in prison until March 19 when the extradation case is to start.

I really don't like it when people (tvindies?) post shite like the post about Amdi and the Palestinians!

It takes away from the credibility of the site...

If anybody has any questions that Tvind/Humana and Amdi are connected at the hip, they just have to look over some of the postings here from the Amdi loyalists...

Well its about time Amdi is going down lets watch the rats run from the sinking ship Drew

Well its about time Amdi is going down lets watch the rats run from the sinking ship Drew

And a nice day to you too, my ESL friend! :)

Anyway Kern County Jail is described as "tough but fair", it should do Amdi some good!

hi tvindalert people do you cenzored messages you are funny people and if you dont have to pay taxes than only stupid people will pay isgoverment fault, if you can say so, that they have holes in policy and is good thet people who want to do good find it not only rich capitalists but also socialists

Amdi i hope is not so hard for you in jail... have nice day people

probably you will soon see that amdi is free

 

 

 

1) (To the poster 5 spots down who relates the Danish press outline of Tvind's "tactics") -- can somebody give us an overview here of what was written? A rough (if not precise) translation?? Some of us in English-speaking countries are waiting on the edges of our seats, and/or agonizing over the papers' website articles without having the faintest idea of what they're saying!!! Which paper was this in? Is there an illustration, a chart? Thanks!

2)(To the poster immediately below THIS post): You may be right. On the other hand ... well, stay tuned, we may be surprised at what happens ... One thing about this is that in the US Amdi is a nobody with money -- with whom has he cultivated friendships he could use to back him up (besides his sudden buddyship with M. Shapiro)? Nobody,in the US is much invested in keeping him here. Money talks, yes; money and influence talk louder...It's possible, too that a foreign national running a sort of international conspiratorial organized crime ring will be met with less tolerance in the US now than he would have been in, say, August of last year...

3)(To the poster immediately below that): You have to leave the message board completely, and then come back in to see your post come up... that's the way the messaging program works.

 

This is most likely unsubstantiated, but there have been rumours for the last little while that the reason the FBI has moved Amdi to the max-security prison outside Los Angeles is because they may be investigating links between Amdi and certain Palestinian organisations.

Once again this is PROBABLY PURE SPECULATION!!!

 

I can't see Amdi being extradicted.

Mogens Amdi Petersen must have hundreds of millions of dollars. Maybe billions. There is no way people like that suffer any harm in America.

Why does it take so long for this guestbook to show you your post?

Aaaaaaw Sabrina, are all those redneck bastards in NORTHERN CALIFORNIA(.......) being mean to you?

Well you have to understand that the whole world is a bunch of rednecks and that the only ones who will be "saved" are the "progressive" Tvindies. It is a cult, what do you expect?

Sabrina, the CCTG along with the other schools/companies are FOR-PROFIT operations, funnelling income through various scam funds such as "Total Control of the Epedimic" right into Amdi Petersen's pockets.

The Danish press showed proof of this tactic in todays papers. Tvind is a goner...

...why is it that everybody who comes out of a tvind program as a "true believer" has also been comvinced that everybody in the communities surrounding them is a redneck racist? Without actual experience in these communities how do you know??? ... I would challenge you all to go out and "help" the people in the communities surrounding you... and see for sure what kind of people you're dealing with.. that way you can know for yourselves that the TG is just feeding you standard Tvind paranoia propaganda. I wonder who came up with the script...it's been around for years... identical wherever you go...

Yes! Todays newspapers in Germany reported Amdi Peterson arrested in Los Angeles. Finaly there will be justic!

i personally went to campus califorina tg and yes it was a lot of work because the school was just starting up and ruth tomas and poitr always told us that we would particapate in the building of the school. it did cost a lot of money to go BUT this is a non profit organzation and they only ask for room and board and barely even that. the fundraising was not so bad and it trained us for when we went to africa! you have to know how to talk to people and be comterble talking to people when your trying to go to africa to teach children how to speak english or when you teach people about the epiemic. CCTG is not a cult, it is a lot of honest people trying to work hard to do something most people are to lazy or heartless to do which is to HELP PEOPLE. the tvind people who write such harmful things about such a great organzation should visit cctg or at least etna. AND last but not least the articule written about cctg "has a cult moved into etna" was written by a local and if you people know anything about etna you would know that it is a town of about 700 people who still call black people jungle monkeys and when the orthodox monks moved to etna tried to run them off the dirt roads in their 67 pickups so when they say its cults thats like beliving a cave man when he says the earth is flat so basically get your facts straight before you bad mouth something! sabrina binastarus@yahoo.com

tuotto,

I am sorry to be the one to tell you this and I really don't like bursting your cosy little bubble but the sole purpose of Humana is to feed Amdi Petersen's ego.

And look where Humana brought him today, county lock-up in the San Joaquin Valley together with Bubba and Billy-Bob...

Get out of Tvind now, it is going to get even uglier...

tuotto

suck my balls

so much energy,dont you guys think its better to head on with your life and keep humana as a good preperation for the tough parts of real life, take care folks and dont gon on making yourself important by talking about this stuff, you just waste your energy,everybody got a brain to think himself... love tuotto

Here is a short resume of the most major developments in the case from Amdi's arrest to today:

Sunday February 17, 1.30 AM PST: Amdi Petersen and his girlfriend Kirsten Larsen arrive at Los Angeles Int'l on a flight from London, intending to travel onward to Mexico. An alert INS officer notices that Amdi Petersen is wanted in Denmark when he routinely scans Amdi's passport. The FBI is contacted and Amdi is placed under arrest.

Although Kirsten Larsen is also a major suspect in the Tvind case, there is for some reason no warrant out on her so she is free to go. Amdi is transported to the Metropolitan Detention center in downtown LA where he is placed in a two-person cell.

Some time between Sunday 2-17 and Tuesday 2-19: Determined to fight his extradition to Denmark and be released from prison, Amdi hires Robert Shapiro, former member of OJ Simpson's defense team, as his defense lawyer.

Tuesday February 19, AM: At the initial court hearing Danish journalists get their first live view of Amdi for nearly 30 years. The prosecutor, Kevin Lally does not make a too convincing case (to be fair his wife had apparantly just given birth and he was suffering from sleep deprivation!) and Shapiro manages to get the judge, Stephen Hillman, to consider granting bail to Amdi, presenting him to the court as "a humanist, a gentleman, a great educator and a migraine sufferer". Judge Hillman asks both counsels to "prepare more evidence" to be presented at a new court meeting scheduled for Thursday when a decision on whether or not to grant bail is to be made. At the hearing, two middle-aged, designer-clad ladies are spotted sitting in the back of the courtroom. When confronted by journalists they repeatedly claim, with thick Danish accents, to be "assistants to Mr. Shapiro". Some of the journalists speculate that the two are in fact Amdi's girlfriend Kirsten Larsten and Ruth Sejere-Olsen, both members of the absolute elite within Tvind.

Tuesday 8.32 PM PST: Amdi Petersen is, for unknown reasons, transferred to the high-security Kern County Jail in Bakersfield, CA, 150 km north of LA. Here he shares a cell with "several" inmates.

Wednesday February 20, PM: Well-known Danish prosecutor Poul Gade arrives in Los Angeles to assist the US authorities with the case. Gade has priviously been up against some very high-profile lawyers in Denmark over Tvind and won.

Thursday February 21: Second court hearing, scheduled for today, is postponed until tomorrow, Friday February 22. Judge Hillman will then decide whether or not to grant bail to Amdi. A new US prosecutor (name unknown) will be leading the case against Amdi Petersen.

With files from Jyllands-Posten (www.jp.dk), Berlingske Tidende (www.berlingske.dk) and Ekstrabladet (www.eb.dk)

yup, tons of Danish reporters in LA these days!

MORE DETAILS FROM THE FRONT:

2/21/02 For those of you who haven't yet heard: Amdi is now being represented in the L.A. court by Robert Shapiro, (of O.J. Simpson fame!) At the hearing on Tuesday it sounded like the judge was leaning towards Mr. Shapiro's wish to have Amdi released on bail, ($ 120 000), rather than keeping him in jail which is obviously what the authorities want. The public prosecuter was poorly prepared, Danish press reported.

There will be another court hearing either today (Thursday) or Friday. It will be very interesting to see if Amdi will be let out on bail. The extradition issue will be handled by the court in mid-March.

 

 

Thanks! You guys are getting all the details over there! In the US it's "Amdi? What's an amdi??" Are there reporters from DK actually reporting FROM LA?

Actually it was in a Danish paper, JyllandsPosten www.jp.dk

oooo I can imagine. Poor guy must be quakin in his boots!

Where did you read that report... I'd like to look it up -- is it in the LA Times (what section?)--Has anybody seen anything else in the papers>

I read he just got transferred to a county jail up in Bakersfield where he will share a cell with several other criminals. I hope they get an opportunity to become acquainted with eachother!

I bet Amdi's having fun in the LA Lock-Up right about now...

Line would you like to help us set up a new charity?

Seeing that you will probably have a lot of time on your hands in the future.

"use your life wisely"

-look who's talking!

LOOOO-SER... :)

Amdi isn't going anywhere. The only reason Shapiro won the OJ case was because it would have set off huge riots all over the US if OJ had been convicted.

This "probably" wouldn't be the case with Amdi....

lol!

Why the hell bring an article from the nonsense newspaper enmandsavisen in danish on this site. Like the rest of the pro tvind folks, it seems like the autor of this article doesn't understand why a society needs regulations to protect it self aginst tvind like companies.

Hello Everyone! I have not been here for a while and thought I would send in a small annoying greetings to the few of you whom use so much time throwing dirt at others. Having been part of the TG for over 10 year, and honestly speaking, having had the greatest time of my life in Zambia with the TG, I feel sad for you whom have never been able to embark on such an adventure! Think about this simple fact: Humana has about 600 volunteers work at their projects every year, -do you think all of them will come back with a good experience? Pleeease!!! There are bound to be folks that do not like the work, think it is too demanding, get sick, annoyed because they can not drink, and simply do not like the work and the ways of the organization. I personally know 6 people who quit from Peace Corp over a period of 6 month in Zambia, their total group was 30 at that time. It happens everywhere, at any organization. We can not guarantee the happines of your stay, but Humana can guarantee that you will be challenged, and YOU will be the one to grow to the challenge. Life is what you make it.... So, pls stop blaming people in your amidiate circle for your short commings, better to be honest and learn from them, -there is so much future in that! I just did forexample, -so now I am trying to be more approachable. We all have things to learn, and if you find out that this program is not for you, be man/woman enough to come to term with that, but stop making life miserable for yourself and the rest of us. We choose our paths in life, and I have the same right as everyone else. I choose TG, and boy, it is great! If you have a problem, seek answers, preferably from someone who can answer. So, Mr. DUrham, since you have never been to a program, how can you ? There is just soo much beauty in the world, and there is also too much pain. I think it is better to go for doing something positive for the 1000 of deprived margenalized people, than throwing dirt at the ones who chose this path in life. Can't you just found your own charitable organization? With the energy you put into this site, I am sure you could use it well in a positive manner, and I bet, your life would be soo much nicer. It always helps when you actually DO something good. Ok, enough said. Please use your life wisely. Line Henriksen IICD-MI

Why does the bad fish always gets away? Ive just read that Amdi Petersen have hired Robert Shapiro, the defender of O.J. Simpson. That fact alone have persueded the american newspapers tp cover the case. One can read about it at www.jp.dk Latimes has a few lines about it. http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-021902lax.story

Well, I guess if you really WANT to do a stint with Tvind now would be time to do it....

They might not be around six months from now!

... and one of the ways you can find out what the Tvind organization is, and how it works, is to thoroughly read through this website!!!!

Also to do thorough research into the work of NGOs in Africa before you get into working for any of them, but especially Humana. It might be very true that, as American comedian Tommy Smothers once said: "One man's garbage is another man's prune Danish" (a parody of the saying "one man's garbage is another man's gold" -- Americans call a particular kind of pastry a "Danish.") (oops, excuse the pun!... maybe that's hitting too close to the image of one particular recently captured jailbird?)-- in other words, the operation of an organization that is right for one person might be completely wrong for another, what's loathesome for one person might be a complete delight to another, and there are undoubtedly more corrupt agencies out there than Tvind... ... but anyone planning a trip to do development work in Africa, or anywhere, is well advised to know the pro's and con's of all of the organizations they are considering, to understand the politics, cultural considerations, and risks in any country they are looking into serving; and to understand clearly their own reasons for undertaking such an endeavor.

My advise would be that if there are any questions, and particularly this heated of a controversy surrounding an organization, why would you want to get involved?

A COMMENT FROM AN EX SOLIDARITYWORKER. I just wanted to point out to whoever reads this; FIND OUT FIRST FOR YOURSELF WHAT THE ORGANISATION IS ABOUT BEFORE REJECTING IT!! There have been PLENTY more of people who have loved their experiences and work then there have been people complaining. THINK OF THAT AND I ASLO WANT TO POINT OUT THAT WITHOUT THE WORK THAT HUMANA DOES IN AFRICA, NO OTHER ORGANISATION WOULD EITHER IN THOSE AREAS. AND THIS GOES FOR IRISH AID, RED CROSS ETC.. FINALLY STAY AWAY FROM THE PEACE BRIGADES.. THEY ARE THE TRUE WERIDOS!!! AND YOU ARE ALWAYS FREE TO DO WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, HUMANA HAS NEVER FORCED ME INTO ANYTHING!!!!!!

Politiet er ved godt mod Og ham der Amdi Petersen har et skizofrent prg - men ellers ligner Tvind enhver anden sund dansk virksomhed

Hvis man skulle vlge et enkelt sindbillede p den danske stat, er der intet, der kommer nrmere end Tvind. Det tvindske skole-rige er alt, hvad der er nutidigt dansk - kassetnkende, internationaliseret, grnsenedbrydende.

Nr derfor halvtreds politifolk er sat ind mod Tvind, s er det i overfrt tydning kun, hvad enhver kunne blive udsat for nr som helst, men som kun overgr dem, det politiske flertal ikke synes om. Tvinds forbrydelse er ganske enkelt at gre det, som alle danskere gr.

Tvind rimer p svind, og denne gang handler sagen mod Tvind om sigtelse for grov skattesvindel. I dele af pressen er Tvind allerede dmt. Dem, man ikke kan lide, skal ikke tro, de kan g ustraffet rundt, om de s har gjort noget eller ej. Findes der noget mere afskyeligt, end nr ens modstandere ligner en selv p en prik?

Politiet stormede Tvind-skolerne, som om fjenden stod i landet, og srt nok s det ud, som om der var fjernsynsfolk til stede, da politiet rykkede ud. Man kan kun hbe, at politiet ikke spiller sammen med landets egentlige dommere, som ikke lngere sidder i retssalene, men p redaktionerne.

TV2-Nyhederne kunne dagen efter meddele, at "Politiet var ved godt mod". Det udtrykker dyb medleven i de menneskers sind, som har vret ramt af noget s hrdt som at vre udkommanderet mod de barske fjender, som skolefolket Tvind udgr. Forhbentlig har der stet psykologer klar til at krise-behandle de politi-folk, der mtte st s uendeligt meget igennem.

Tvind-folkene derimod er der ingen omsorg for. I TV2s morgenprogram kunne man hre, at Tvind-skolernes leder, Amdi Petersen, har et skizofrent prg. Han er ikke med i den Tvind-fond, som er sigtet, men det er ingen hindring for i TV2 at skildre ham som et alvorligt sygt menneske. TV2 har nemlig gjort den nye Tvind-sag til sin egen, og redaktionens strste rgrelse synes at vre, at den ikke selv har uniformskldte til at rykke ud og fastholde dem, som stationens dokumentar-programmer finder skyldige.

Morgenavisen Jyllands-Posten, der ikke omgs Tvind venskabeligt, slr dog koldt vand i blodet. Tvind har allerede vret undersgt for det, som Tvind-fonden nu er sigtet for. Det er told- og skattevsenet, som har undersgt. De skyndte sig at trkke fingrene til sig, for det viste sig, at Tvind gjorde det selvsamme som Rde Kors, Folkekirkens Ndhjlp og Dansk Flygtningehjlp. Jyllands-Posten skriver i dag:

"Told og Skat havde allerede i 1995 mistanke om, at pengene i Tvinds ''Fonden til sttte for humanitre forml, til fremme af forskning og til beskyttelse af naturmiljet'' blev brugt til noget andet end det, der str i fondens forml. Derfor kulegravede Told og Skat i Holstebro i 1995-1996 flere af Tvinds pengestrmme med det forml at afslre ulovligheder - men uden held. Hvad angr den srlige Tvind-fond, stdte skattemyndighederne p den hindring, at et angreb mod Tvind samtidig ville delgge hjlpearbejdet for humanitre organisationer som Dansk Rde Kors, Folkekirkens Ndhjlp og Dansk Flygtningehjlp."

Det kan ikke siges tydeligere. Hvis Tvind havde vret ene om at gre, hvad de gr, s var der skredet ind fra told- og skattevsen. Men da Rde Kors, Folkekirkens Ndhjlp og Dansk Flygtningehjlp lever p samme vilkr, s sker der intet. Dansk retstilstand er, at bare alle gr det samme, s er der ikke mulighed for at hnge dem ud, vi ikke kan lide, selvom det bare er rgerligt, at vi ikke kan f ram p dem.

Tvind har jo vret i vlten igen og igen. I stedet for at tage et ndvendigt opgr p demokratisk vis med deres synspunkter og skoleform, s bliver de forfulgt af politikere og nu ogs politifolk. Politikere er allerede ude i hlene p politiet og krve ndringer af ulands-sttten som flge af Tvind-sagen. Tvind er skyldig, ikke fordi sagen er undersgt eller har vret for en dommer, men fordi Tvind er Tvind. Glemt er det, at de gamle partiers politikere landet over mere end nogen andre har holdt Tvind i live r efter r ved for dyre penge at sende unge frem som elever, fordi kommunerne ikke anede, hvad de ellers skulle stille op.

Fr der overhovedet har vret en eneste retssag mod Tvind i den ny sag, er folkene bag allerede dmt i flere presse-former og lederen er hngt ud, fordi han hvdes at have et skizofrent prg og holder harem. Gr Tvind-folkene noget ulovligt, skal de dmmes. Men der er jo en meget srlig grund til at passe p i omgangen med Tvind. Skole-samfundet er jo allerede een gang tidligere blevet dmt uden brug af retsvsenet, nemlig af folketinget, som burde vre lovgivende magt og skarpt adskilt fra den dmmende magt. Men folketingets store flertal kunne ikke holde fingrene vk, da der var en mulighed for at gre de politiske partier til domstol.

26 Tvind-skoler blev lukket af det danske folketings flertal, fordi de havde svindlet for omkring 30 millioner. Det blev vedtaget uden retssag. Politi-undersgelser i et r viste, at der intet som helst kriminelt var i Tvinds handlinger. Rigsrevisorerne fandt ud af, at det var undervisningsministeriet, der havde regnet galt, ikke Tvind. Men Tvind-loven var vedtaget. Skolerne var lukket. Siden blev loven kendt ugyldig af hjesteret.

Folketinget havde beget overgreb mod et mindretal. Nogle f, blandt dem Venstres Birthe Rnn Hornbech, deltog ikke i jagten p Tvind. Hun stemte ikke for at lukke Tvind-skolerne. Hun sagde rent ud, at det var grundlovsbrud. Og hjesteret gav hende medhold. Birthe Rnn Hornbech ngtede selvsagt ikke at medvirke til den ulovlige lov mod Tvind, fordi hun elsker skole-samfundet, men fordi hun rent ud er et ordentligt menneske. Det er betegnende, at tidligere undervisningsminister Bertel Haarder trods sin baggrund i de frie skoler stemte for den ulovlige lov mod Tvind. Vi kunne da ikke holde med Tvind, som han fik sagt til Ekstra-Bladet. Hos Haarder ligger friheden i gode hnder.

Tvind vandt i hjesteret. Folketinget tabte. Folketinget havde sigtet og dmt Tvind for at bryde loven, men Tvind gik fri. Det var folketinget, der havde forbrudt sig mod loven, endda grundloven. Det giver ikke hverken skole-samfundet eller Tvind-fonden ret til at te sig anderledes i forhold til landets love end alle andre. Men som sagen ser ud, s gr Tvind jo med loven, hvad s mange danske virksomheder synes at gre. Samme dag som politiet hvdede, at ulands-penge gik tilbage til Tvind, kom det frem, at en dansk ulands-bistand p 170 millioner nsten purt og rent var get tilbage til danske virksomheder.

Modsat Tvind-samfundet, der er blevet frifundet til nu, har den ene virksomhed efter den anden under socialdemokratisk ledelse vist sig at vre ulovligt drevet med alvorlig misbrug af midler. Tnk, hvad en morgen-politistorm mod alt, hvad der er under socialdemokratisk formandskab, kunne fre til. Men nej, vi er da et retssamfund. Retten afhnger af, hvor man politisk hrer hjemme. Sig mig, om politiet besger dig om morgenen, og jeg skal sige dig, hvilket politisk parti du er medlem af.

Politikerne har straks travlt med at fre politi-undersgelsen ind p Christiansborg. Der skal laves om p reglerne i en fart. End ikke hjesterets dom mod folketinget for grundlovsbrud fr politikerne til at holde fingrene af fadet og tie, indtil retten har talt.

Jeg afskyer Tvind. Derfor er det min pligt at vrne Tvinds frihed og at fastholde, at de er uskyldige, indtil det modsatte er bevist. Det er ikke bare min pligt. Det er enhver danskers pligt. Det er den arv, vi har med os.

Poul Erik Se 28. april 2001

Gengivelse af artikler i enmandsavisen er tilladt, nr kilden oplyses.

Enmandsavisen

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