Guestbook Archive (2001-2022)
Historic entries from the original TvindAlert.com
Showing entries 26,701-26,800 of 221,092 | Page 268 of 2211
📝 Archive Preservation Note: Unfortunately, the original guestbook entries were not preserved with dates, times, or author names. We have restored as much of the original content as we could from archived snapshots (2001-2022). Entries are displayed in chronological order as they appeared in the original archive.
Dear Frsig If you loking at the last 10 entry then i think you would see that people are trying to keep a good tone. If you then look at the things you write then the tone change into a mix of accusation and gossip. So when you are complaning about the tone then you are accusing yourself. So instead of just writing about things that you have picked up or think that you might have heard, then maybe you should try to help creating a forum for discusion instead. Someone wrote in a previous letter that the Tvind people didn't want to partipate in a discusion with changes of arguments and fact, but when i read your coment i is most likely you who don't want this dialog. You just continue saying that the won't, without trying to do it yourself.
Thomas
I was just about to join DRH in Denmark, until my vist on this page.
Thank you!
REPLY TO FORSIG.
Since this guestbook has been closed down for a while this answer ha sonly been posted now. It is to Frosigs questions further down
Now I know why you have not even written this questions down here in the guestbook. They are not questions but statements. I have tried to comment on each of your question/statement but am not sure if you will be happy with it. At least a try.
1) Why will Tvind not allow an outside and independent auditor to go examine the "books" and provide a report on expenses, income, fundraising and development programs.
a) IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION AND I CAN SEE HOW SOME WOULD "GIVE UP" TRYING TO ANSWER YOU. I WILL GIVE IT A TRY BUT DONT NOW IF YOU WILL BE SATIFISFIED.
FIRST OFF ALL. YOU ARE STATING SOMETHING IN THE QUESTION THAT IS NOT TRUE. THAT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO ANSWER. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO ANSWER WHY IF YOU DO NOT DO WHAT YOU ARE STATING.
EACH TRAVELING SCHOOL (TRAINING DEVELOPMENT INSTRUCTORS) ARE GETTING THEIR BOOKS AUDITED BY A STATE AUTHORIZED INDEPENDENT AUDITOR. STOP WRITING YOUR FALSE ACCUSATIONS
SECONDLY... TVIND IS NOT A NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION. TVIND IS THE NAME THAT THE MEDIA(OR WHO EVER) HAVE GIVEN TO ACTIVITIES/PROJECTS/SCHOOLS/BUSINESS ETC WHERE THERE IS SOMEONE FROM THE TEACHERS GROUP (TG). THE TG IS PEOPLE THAT AMONG OTHERS THINGS HAVE CHOSEN TO SHARE THEIR MONEY. JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE IN THIS WORLD ONE TG CAN GET AN EMPLOYMENT. MANY PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD RECIEVE A SALARY. ALSO MANY IN THE TG. THE SALARY IS EACH PERSONS PRIVATE INCOME AND WHAT IT IS USED FOR IS NON OF YOUR BUSINESS. THOU SOME OF THAT MONEY HAS BEEN USED TO START UP AND SUPPORT DIFFERENT PROJECTS. HUMANITARIAN AS WELL AS OTHER PRIVATE INITIATIVES. AGAIN VISIT WWW.FONDEN.ORG.
(2) Why will Tvind not allow an outside and independent evaluation of Tvind development programs. Not simply a few showcase projects but a look at the breadth of Tvind activity.
YOU ARE DOING THE SAME THING I THIS QUESTION. YOU ARE ACCUSING SOME ONE FOR NOT DOING SOMETHING THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO.
A COMPARISON. YOUR NAME IS FROSIG? HOW MANY ARE YOU IN YOUR FAMILY INCLUDING RELATIVES? 5-10-15? LETS SAY THAT I AM A PERSON THAT HAVE MET 1 OF YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS. I DIDNT LIKE HIM/HER. I THINK HE WAS SMELLY AND UNPOLITE AND VERY DIS- HONEST. I HEAR RUMOURS THAT THE PARTICULAR FAMILY MEMBER OF YOURS IS SELLING DRUGS. I THINK, OH YES, THAT IS IT! I COULD THEN ASK YOU. WHY IS IT THAT THE FROSIG FAMILY IS SELLING ILLEGAL DRUGS?
YOUR REACTION MIGHT BE: 1) I DO NOT SELL DRUGS I WILL SAY 2) WHY DO YOU NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION? YOU SAY 3) I DONT SELL DRUGS I WILL SAY 4) WHY DO YOU NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION. WHAT ARE YOU HIDING? ARE YOU A PART OF A BIG QUARTEL???!!
DO YOU SEE THE DILEMMA YOU ARE IN? IF YOU ANSWER, YOU ARE A LIER. IF YOU DO NOT ANSWER YOU GET ACCUSED FOR NOT ANSWERING.
NOW BACK TO YOUR ACCUSATION OF TVIND YOU ARE STATING SOMETHING THAT IS NOT TRUE IN YOUR QUESTION!
HUMANA PEOPLE TO PEOPLE AND THE TRAVELLING FOLK HIGH SCHOOLS ARE RUNNING DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS AND PROJECTS. EVERY YEAR THE ACCOUNTS FOR EACH TRAVELLING FOLK HIGH SCHOOL IS AUDITED BY A STATE AUTHORIZED AUDITOR.
SEVERAL HAVE DONE AN EVALUTAION OF HUMANA PEOPLE TO PEOPLES WORK. -GOVERNMENTS IN AFRICA -DONORS THAT GIVES SUPPORT -SIDA -NORAD -DANCONSULT -UNIVERSITY OF GOTHENBURG -PROBABLY MANY OTHERS I DONT KNOW ABOUT
SO YOUR QUESTION IS AGAIN STATING THAT SOMETHING VERY BAD IS DONE. YOU HAVE ALLREADY MADE YOUR MIND UP AND WHAT YOU SEEM TO WORK WITH IT IS TO FIND WHATEVER YOU CAN TO PROVE IT.
(3) Why does Tvind not co-opereate with the authorities in Denmark, instead of sabotaging the police investigation, if they have nothing to hide?
IN MY OPINION. I BELIEVE THAT IS ONE SIDE OF THE STORY. MANY PEOPLE IN CONNECTION WITH WHAT YOU CALL TVIND I PERSONALLY KNOW. I ALSO KNOW THAT THEY ARE VERY COOPERATIVE AND FOLLOW THE RULES, LAWS AND REGULATIONS REQUIRED BY THE AUTHORITIES.
AS WRITTEN TO YOU EARLIER YOU SHOULD READ THE ARTICLE BY A TG MEMBER. HE EXPLAINS THE SITUATION VERY CLEARLY FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW. YOU CAN FIND IT AT www.tvind.dk. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT HIS ARGUMENTS? HAVE READ IT?
BACK TO YOUR FAMILY. THAT FAMILY MEMBER OF YOUR. WE MADE A STORY ABOUT HIM SELLING DRUGS AS A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT. WHAT ABOUT IF THE POLICE ONE DAY CAME AND STOLE YOUR COMPUTER! THE REASON IS. SOME PEOPLE SAY THAT YOUR FAMILY MEMBER IS SELLING DRUGS. HOW WOULD YOU REACT? YOU KNOW FOR SURE THAT HE IS NOT
YOU SEE I TURN THE QUESTION AGAIN!!!!!!! (NOW YOU CAN ONE MORE ARGUMENT FOR THAT THE SO CALLED PRO TVIND PEOPLE NEVER ANSWER!!!)
YOU CONTINUE SAYING; -TVINDIES ARE CRIMINAL, TVINDIES ARE CRIMINAL ETC ETC YOU ASK -WHY ARE YOU CRIMINALS?
HOW CAN ANYONE ANSWER YOU IF THEY ARE NOT CRIMINALS???
(4) Why are Tvind withholding what could be important research results, that could save lifes, and at the same time stating that they are doing a good job?
WHAT IMPORTANT SEARCH RESULT IS IT THAT IS WITHHOLDING??? I KNOW ABOUT 1 MADE FOR/BY NORAD AND THAT DID NOT GET PUBLISHED. NORAD DID NOT WANT TO LET IT OUT. FURTHER DO I NOT KNOW ABOUT ANY MORE IMPORTANT RESEARCH RESULT THAT IS KEPT AWAY.
(5)If pro Tvind folks wants to safe the earth and humanity, why not help others to help you do your work even better, by making you results available for the public?
IF YOU GO TO WWW.HUMANA.ORG I BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN FIND YEAR REPOPORTS OF HUMANAS WORK. HUMANA PEOPLE TO PEOPLE IS AN ORGANIZATION WORKING TO IMPROVE THE SITUATION FOR PEOPLE. I DO NOT THINK THE ARE THINKING ABOUT SAVING THE WORLD BUT ARE DOING THEIR BEST TO MAKE AN IMPROVEMENT.
I BELIEVE THAT THE RESULTS ARE VERY PUBLIC. YOU CAN JUST READ ABOUT IT OR ASK.
(7)Why does tvind only allow outsiders to read populistic interpretations of project evaluations?
YOU DO IT AGAIN!!! I DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING THAT WOULD MAKE THE STATEMENT TRUE.
IF it was and you really want to find out. a) Get the example. Eg Mr Sven was not allowed to read Tvindalert while at DRH ?. Write to the school and ask why. Then you might get an answer.
(8)Why does so many pro Tvind folks turn aginst us, when the only thing we want is for Tvind to become an transparent organisation (like 99pct of all non profit organisations).
WHO ARE YOU? First YOU accuse what you call TVIND to be terrorist, brain wash, steal money, indoctrinate, infiltrate, being maoist Stalinist, exploit the poor, being cult, taking away peoples freedom etc etc. THEN expect that the people accused by YOU should just sit down and be very happy for that YOU want to make a more transparent organization.??
*Tvind is not one thing. -DRH Tvind is a private institution -One World Volunteer Inst in Norway is a stiftelse -Planet AID in USA is a non profit
All for now
A few questions regarding the index page of this website: Does the layout (or the lack thereof) and choice of colours reflect the state of mind of the makers of this web site? What does the Dutch windmill logo represent? Rustic peasant thought processes? Why is the language so innately tabloidlike? (eg. "A secret commercial empire..." How can an empire be secret??) Who was heading The Small School at Winestead Hall when the unfortunate Sylvia was a student there? Did she take her complaints to him/her? How do the makers of this web site view the reliability of the UINTA leaders and why does it choose to quote this organisation rather than the UN? (On the Caxito kidnappings.)
OK. That's it for now.
:~) Anna Hoas (teacher at PTG in Tvind, but you can call me guru if you like...)
Reply to Jimmy, Yes, there has been many outsiders investigating tvind, but not in co-operation with tvind. I agree with you that "this part of the world is supposed to be free, democratic and open". But the terms "free", "democratic" and "open" isn't terms that caracterises the Tvind organisation. If you consider the tvind organisation "free", "open" and "democratic", you will proberly be able to tell me why Tvind isn't a more transperant organisation - like 99pct of all non-profit organisation. Please explain to me, why everyone that asks for more transperancy is cicked out of the organisation. I have experienced several times that TG turn aginst the ones that raises questions, that could lead to more transperancy. Why is that? Please tell me.
frosig2001@yahoo.dk
Anna and Jimmy,
Thanks for the postings. I appreciate the dialogue. For the record I am not a journalist but simply someone who experienced a Tvind school first hand and am posting here so that people thinking about joining a Tvind program get some exposure to something else besides the glossy info on Tvind websites. I don't consider this mis-information but counter information to the Tvind line. After all, why are the only links to Tvind sites from other Tvind sites?
Frankly, I find the hostility to critique/evaluation on the part of the TG troubling and a good example of the insular mindset that is the largest problem with the TG. It is convenient to discount any critique as part of an inquisition but I know from my own personal experience that there is a lot of truth to these reports. The issue is that since Tvind seems unwilling to address critiques it is destined to repeat the same problems over and over.
Matt
Hi everyone, Matt & John and whoever visits this page! I have been in the Teacher's Group, I have been working as a teacher at a school and I have been to Africa, to America, to England and many times to the Tvind schools in Denmark. I made a choice and left, because I have other things that I give priority to in my life. But it is all about a choice, a decision. you have to decide what kind of life you want to live. In the teacher's group you have common economy, common work (and it is a lot of it) and common time. Sometimes you like it, sometimes you don't, but these common things make the teacher's group work. Tomas and Ruth are now setting up the CCTG in California as you call tell by the name. I wish them all my luck and I hope that CCTG will grow and become what we hoped for when you left Norway for the US. Ruth and Tomas are two of the most honest, hard-working and inspiring people I know, so please, help them and support them to give more people a chance to develop as persons and get an experience that they will remember for the rest of their life!
and one more thing! How do you manage to keep this page alert! It must be a full time job keeping it up to date! And finding it all out! And what is the use? Do you enjoy it? Can't you see the TG is just growing and growing and growing.... And I believe they are quite harmless in comparision with many other so called sects, or transnational companies, or the IMF and the WB....
Have a nice day, and do something more useful! (Why don't volunteer for Africa?)If you want to read about my experience you can visit my homepage....
Anna
Trust me, there are many many "outsiders" investigating Tvind, and has been since we started. 70's, we were communists, 80's we suddenly became capitalistic and in the 90's we became a sect. Let's see what this century will bring us.
Since we started we've been questioned by the authorities many many times, our fond which is the "latest" news is the most investigated fond there is I think, they've tried to find something in it since 94-95 something, and still haven't succeded, maybe that is a sign on that there is nothing to hide? Or of course, we are "hiding the evidence" As all organisations we have to give away a yearly economical report that's being checked by the authorities, and correct me If I'm wrong in thinking that everything that comes from "the tvind imperium" is being examined about 200 times as throughoutly as anything else, since everybody "knows" that we are "cheating" with the papers.
Froedig, we are being examined, daily, by many different authorities, and so forth they haven't found anything to accuse us for. The "Saerloven" that has been declared illegal by the supreme court still exists..
The "truth about Tvind" phenomena has become something very similar to the inquisition and the crusades, we are being herassed by people like you daily, we see our names in the papers miscredited, we're under constant pressure from the authorities and journalists looking for anything to put their hands on, if it's not illegal they blow it up in a big headline making it illegal anyway, misinformation and slander has become an art form for the people trying to sell more papers, and Tvind sells, since everybody "knows" that we are "brainwashing people, hiding money" and have this big guru living in Bahamas taking all the money, I've never met Amdi, He has nothing to do with my daily life or weekly, or yearly...
Stop hunting us, This part of the world is supposed to be free, democratic and open... but all it is is journalists trying to sell more, authorities that builds their opinions from these newspapers and ordinary people believing what they say and put a pressure on the politicians that they must stop this "evil cult" or whatever we're called.
Everyone knew for not that many hundred years ago that the earth was the centre of the universe, that it was flat and so forth, people today "know" that Tvind is bad, hiding money and brainwashing innocent people that tries to do some good.
It's all about (mis)information, the media has given us a bad name, therefore we are "bad"
Considering the journalisic value of this webpage I wish it could make me laugh, but unfortunately it's being believed in... so therefore we can't just ignore it, it's time to start build up our good names and tell the real truth about Tvind.
About truths by the way, you wanna hear the "Truth about Tvind "luxurious cruises" with problematic kids to the carribeans"?
When we did that there were no laws saying that drug addicts has to be treated in Denmark, they made the law and we stopped the sailing. very undramatic, and trust me, they weren't no luxurious cruises.....
If you have the possibility to give something to someone who otherwise never will get anything, why not? Youngsters with problems are being run over by society, if we can give them something to be happy for it will help, much more than the ordinary scientific way of punishments....
Yes, I'm in the teachers group, and I'm proud of it.
Jimmy DNS
Reply to Kimmy
Ofcouse we shall support "the pure and the lonely" people, but not regardless how our involvement migt influence their lifes. Therefore project evaluations are important, so we can learn more about what can be done to help improve the lifes of "the pure and lonely".
Doesn't it puzzle you that Tvind will nor allow any outside and independent auditor to go examine the "books" and provide a report on expenses, income, fundraising and the effect of their development programs. If tvind did allow such examinations of their activities, many more people would proberly join aid programs, trying to help "the pour and lonely", but they don't. In this perspective one can say that tvind is working agianst the people who needs help. Who benefits from that?
frosig2001@yahoo.dk
btw, because Microsoft is a public company it is regularly audited by outside people and information on how money is spent is readily available. This includes information on the salary of Bill Gates. So ironically, Microsoft is more transparent than Tvind.
Again I ask anyone to answer if Tvind has nothing to hide, why is it so secretive.
Matt
Hello Frosig What do ou do to make a better world? I think it is amazing that you have time to sit and write so much - I think you should go and do the things as you think they should be done! There is space for all of us! So let thoose in Tvind do it in their way! You can do it in your way! I have done a lot of aid work for many years (more than 17) and I must admit by reading your page I am feeling more and more sympathy for thoose people in Tvind who go on and on even they have so much wind against them - YOU made me go there to visit 3 of the schools - and they have won a place in my heart! Thanks to great students and teachers -
Go for the best - go for support of the poor and the lonely people in this strange world! "Kimmy"
Reply from Frsig
The ones of us who fights for more transperency in the tvind organisations are asked the folowing question: "When have you ever seen Microsoft or other companies or Red cross or Child Care giving all there papir out to public desplaid."
First of all: Microsoft isn't a non-profit organisation, like the Tvind organisation clames it is.
Second, Red cross is a non-profit organisation, where all projects are evaluated by outside and independent auditors, with a sceintific background, and there results are made avalialbe for the public - go to the libery and look it up. If you cann't find it, ask for acces to sceintific databases, with references to articels and books that deals with the subject.
When you mention Child Care, I assume you are reffering to the canadian organisation called "Child Care International" (www.ccare.net). I'am not sure - please be more specific.
Frosig2001@yahoo.dk
Reply from frsig
I'am asked which questions I (together with others), have raised without getting an answer. If you call attempts to misscredit my person "answers", I will remind you that the main issues are:
(1) Why will Tvind not allow an outside and independent auditor to go examine the "books" and provide a report on expenses, income, fundraising and development programs.
(2) Why will Tvind not allow an outside and independent evaluation of Tvind development programs. Not simply a few showcase projects but a look at the breadth of Tvind activity.
(3) Why does Tvind not co-opereate with the authorities in Denmark, instaed of sabotaging the police investigation, if they have nothing to hide?
(4) Why are Tvind withholding what could be important research results, that could save lifes, and at the same time stating that they are doing a good job?
(5)If pro Tvind folks wants to safe the earth and humanity, why not help others to help you do your work even better, by making you results available for the public?
(7)Why does tvind only allow outsiders to read populistic interpretations of project evaluations?
(8)Why does so many pro Tvind folks turn aginst us, when the only thing we want is for Tvind to become an transparent organisation (like 99pct of all non profit organisations).
(9) Why have these important calls been ignored?
If Tvind went forward in an open dialog, and started answering these questions, it proberly would make many more people join.
And for the record: I second Matt in his answer to John: "I agree with you that the world is not black and white and actually I don't think anyone has said that Tvind is "only bad". Personally I think there are some very good intentioned people (particularly the volunteers) involved with Tvind but that their efforts are being undermined by the structure and mentality of the organization".
all you people who ask about more transparent in the organisation should look around in the real world. When have you ever seen Microsoft or other companies or Red cross or Child Care giving all there papir out to public desplaid. So wake up and see the reality. All you guy's are are sitting there and hide behind your computers and think you are saving the world. Let me tell you a secret, you are not saving the world from the big bad wolf all you are doing is sitting and think you are doing a lot.
to Forsig
You have got several answers!! The persons that have answered you back has maybe a different opinion then you. Tell me WHAT questions did you not get answered??
Sigh....John, I did not say that all who get involved with Tvind are poor victims. That's your interpretation. Also since I have nothing to do with this site (besides posting) I have no idea how these postings are untraceable.
Again I ask people to address the issues of Tvind's accountability and transparency.
Matt
Walt disney maked cartons. Reality isn't something you can play around with, regardless how it migth influence other peoples life. I second Matt and Frosig: It's time that Tvind starts answering the basic questions regarding the organisations transperency. See Matt's and Frogsig's letters, and stop ignoring their attempt to start a dialog.
Hi Matt
Your answer still indicates that Tvind is bad and all who get involved are poor victims.
I am not going for the person I am just reading and understanding what you write and what you do no write.
Why do you select not to answer my question: How can you guarantee that we who write here are untreaceable?
Hi John,
I agree with you that the world is not black and white and actually I don't think anyone has said that Tvind is "only bad". Personally I think there are some very good intentioned people (particularly the volunteers) involved with Tvind but that their efforts are being undermined by the structure and mentality of the organization.
I'm (and others) are simply asking for accountability and transparency from Tvind but these calls have been so far ignored.
Matt
We encourage you to research each topic for yourself: check out all the links, especially the ones that seem contrary to your views; question the motivation of the writer and publisher; and form your own opinion about the information that is being presented. We suggest that you treat all other news/information outlets in the same way - the media have strong biases which directly affect the way in which news and information is presented to you - and very often that leads to disinformation.
"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great." - Mark Twain
iq191@hotmail.com
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible." -- Walt Disney
To the alerters I do not understand: You ask us pro Tvind not to say that Tvind is only good. How come you can say it is only bad?
The world is not black and white.
John Beard iq191@hotmail.com
N.B. How can you guys guarantee that the entries are untraceable?
To Piotr Durjasz:
I have not been to CCTG but given the fact that it is a school is part of Tvind and I assume that you are a member of the Teachers Group (please correct me if I am wrong) I cannot imagine that it is much different than other Tvind schools in the US. After all when Ted Lewis began to talk about taking IICD into new directions in the late 1980s, the TG sent over Norling to take over and Ted soon left.
However, I would be happy to attend one of your informational meetings the next time you are in the San Francisco Bay. Would you let me come?
Matt
Comment to Daniel: You say There are other people who think that doing something is better, than doing nothing.
Actually I would disagree with that because often just doing something can result in a lot of pain and hardship. Check out Arturo Escobars Encountering Development : the making and unmaking of the Third World for a thorough critique of programs that just did something.
Development work is an incredible difficult task with lots and lots of unintended consequences. The classic example is the surplus grain given/sold to India during the 1950s by the US. Leaving the largely geo-political motivations aside for the moment, one of the major results was that farmers in the countryside could no longer sell their crops because the imported food was so much cheaper. The same thing goes with importing used clothing. Yes, people have access to cheaper clothing but any domestic garment industry is hard pressed to continue and people can potentially lose jobs and livelihoods.
Im not saying that one should do nothing but just doing something without thinking about the long term and unintended impacts is short-sighted. I think this is the biggest problem with Tvind development projects. I just think it is a shame for good-intentioned volunteers to join a program/project, put in lots of hard work, and not know whether it will (1) survive beyond their involvement and (2) really help people.
Matt
Hello All,
Ray/Thomas/Daniel with you replies to Frosig: In my opinion, Frosig is not setting a bad tone. In terms of stories/evidence one need only go to other parts of Tvindalert. You may say that its one-sided but there are links to Tvind sites as well.
And for the record, I second Frosigs call for Tvind to answer basic questions about its work. This is something that seems entirely reasonable and has been called for by myself and others but I have not seen any serious reply to it. Its simple and standard practice for 99 percent of non-profits.
(1) Allow an outside and independent auditor to go examine the "books" and provide a report on expenses, income, fundraising and development programs.
(2) Allow an outside and independent evaluation of Tvind development programs. Not simply a few showcase projects but a look at the breadth of Tvind activity.
Any takers? Id love to hear your responses.
Matt
Eusobio, I have no idea who you are. You have definitely mistaken me for someone else. I was a project leader. Noone sent me home. - Jafina
Reply form Frsig
I would like to go into an open dialog, just as I stated in my previous contribution (read it bellow). Please notice that there has not been a singel attempt to try to answer any of the questions i raised. I took the time to point out a startingpoint for an open dialog, and you just keep ignorig my questions. Wouldn't you agree that the information on pro-tvind site is a good starting point for an open dialog? The case seems to be that pro tvin people do not deal with critiqeul questions. Ask your teachers why, and they will proberly tell you not to bother with these matters.
I will not give pro tvind folks the oppertunity to miscredit me, just as you have tried to do with Jafina and many others. She trusted everyone here with her frightning story, and you turn aginst her like small children fighting for candy. By not givning you my story, as jafina and others have done, I hope that we could consentrate on issues that can be verified on aknowledged research websites at universities etc. But not much tvind reseach is avaliable there (and that is a fact), compared to the big word that are used on your websites. Go and check it out for yourself.
It is also a fact, that Tvind trouhg withholding what might be importent information and research results, is making it quite impossible to go into an open dialog. If you want to safe the earth and humanity as you clame, why not help others to help you do your work even better, by making you results available for the public? Why not fight for an transparent organisation, which proberly would make many more people join?
frosig2001@yahoo.dk
Mostly for today my opinion is:-
I am sick and tired of meetings and the never ending meetings, which go on and on and on......
My writing style can show that I am brainwashed.
They are pushing us to the edge, should we jump? Suicide sounds good to me but what do you think.
Someone feels fine, which is "good".
My opinion will change AGAIN tomorrow.
I am a volunteer in one of the school's and the person who is calling tvind alert is a hypocryt. Because they are basically calling british people. So They should think before writing. I am British and if you judge everyone by the history of their country, would there be any decent people left?
Hey Jafina remember me Eusebio.We where working toghether. What is this dead threat you write about? my friends and me never heard about dead threat against you but there was one againt the boss of the work group, but never against you. And you don't drink? Well i think i learn something new everyday. You where telling stories thenand for my friends and me it appear that you are still telling stories. Have you forgot why the send you home? Maybe you should tell people about that. Eusebio.
Readers: You might want to check out the crude response to my recent revelation about a frightening experience that I had. This is a typical Tvind reaction to practically every important question or comment you make -- missing the point and changing the subject. The writer accuses me of being more interested in drinking alcohol. For your information, I DON'T drink or do drugs. The point I was making is that Tvind wastes a lot of time chasing after people about a lousy drink, but when an actual threat to someone's personal security arises, they do NOTHING. - Jafina
Dear Frosig Here you go again. If I look at some of the comment I don't think that people is backing you up, but what the are doing, is backing up an open dialog. You defend yourself by hiding behind other people and the are agree with you, but I can see a lot of people who is getting tired of the way you write your letter. And then you say, "don't attack the person behind the argument" maybe if the person behind the argument was open to other peoples argument, they wouldn't attack you. Just because some people write positive things about this organisation doesnt mean that the are pro Tvind or Tvind people. There are other people who think that doing something is better, than doing nothing. So think about it and come up with some facts that people can relate to (I am not talking about what you read or create), instead of repeating the same story over and over again. I know the saying that if you repeat the same story over and over again it become a true, and reading the letters you have being sending seem to be a defend and the same story over and over again and again and again. Put some of the fact and evidence you have out here. And when I say fact and evidence I don't mean a article from a newspaper or some anonymous source, but real things that people can touch and understand and at the same time give those people you seem to hate so much, a chance to answer. I hope you will take this letter as positive critic and move on and publics some of all the evidence you appear to have. Best wishes Daniel
reply from Frsig.
Please be specifik when you accuse me of writting "in a mix of accusations and gossip". If you want to de-valuate my contributions on this site, please concentrate on the arguments instead of trying to attack the person behind the arguments. So far plenty of people has backed up my statements - are those people just theifs and lairs?
If you look at the last 20 messages only tvind pro folks are making "wild" accusations, in an abusive language.
Ofccouse I could write more about my own experiences, but I don't consider this guestbook a history-board. I started writing on this site because students at tvind scholls are being misled by their Teachers, in an attempt to make them join a tvind-program. Therefore I find it importen to reveal the values the tvind-organisation builds on. Ofcause this work would be much easyer if the oragnisation would provide one with the scientific data, that schould back up all their attivements - but they will not. And if their dispotions and money transacts where transperant, but they are not. Is it wrong of me to insist that a suposed non-profit organisation like tvind starts to open up, and public its research, instaed of holding it for it self, and at the same time stating that they are doing a good job? You can say that the information is available on tvind sites - but this information is just populistic interpretations of their own results ore statements from politicians. Why does the organisation not trust that people are capable of interpreting the data's themselves - some people, other than tvind folks, actually are competent enough to do the job. If this information was available, I would be happy to contribute in a more constructive maner. And please don't tell to go to www.fonden.org - it is worhtless. If you disagree, please tell me wich parts isn't, and why that is. (I assume you consider all the informaion on this site of great value)
frosig2001@yahoo.dk
Dear Jafina I can imaging the fear you had with this dead threat hangimg over you. But i do notice that you seems more upset about not being able to drink (EVER in capital letter) than the actual threat.
Dear Frsig If you loking at the last 10 entry then i think you would see that people are trying to keep a good tone. If you then look at the things you write then the tone change into a mix of accusation and gossip. So when you are complaning about the tone then you are accusing yourself. So instead of just writing about things that you have picked up or think that you might have heard, then maybe you should try to help creating a forum for discusion instead. Someone wrote in a previous letter that the Tvind people didn't want to partipate in a discusion with changes of arguments and fact, but when i read your coment i is most likely you who don't want this dialog. You just continue saying that the won't, without trying to do it yourself.
Thomas
I was just about to join DRH in Denmark, until my vist on this page.
Thank you!
Since this guestbook has been closed down for a while this answer ha sonly been posted now. It is to Frosigs questions further down
Now I know why you have not even written this questions down here in the guestbook. They are not questions but statements. I have tried to comment on each of your question/statement but am not sure if you will be happy with it. At least a try.
1) Why will Tvind not allow an outside and independent auditor to go examine the "books" and provide a report on expenses, income, fundraising and development programs.
a) IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION AND I CAN SEE HOW SOME WOULD "GIVE UP" TRYING TO ANSWER YOU. I WILL GIVE IT A TRY BUT DONT NOW IF YOU WILL BE SATIFISFIED.
FIRST OFF ALL. YOU ARE STATING SOMETHING IN THE QUESTION THAT IS NOT TRUE. THAT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO ANSWER. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO ANSWER WHY IF YOU DO NOT DO WHAT YOU ARE STATING.
EACH TRAVELING SCHOOL (TRAINING DEVELOPMENT INSTRUCTORS) ARE GETTING THEIR BOOKS AUDITED BY A STATE AUTHORIZED INDEPENDENT AUDITOR. STOP WRITING YOUR FALSE ACCUSATIONS
SECONDLY... TVIND IS NOT A NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION. TVIND IS THE NAME THAT THE MEDIA(OR WHO EVER) HAVE GIVEN TO ACTIVITIES/PROJECTS/SCHOOLS/BUSINESS ETC WHERE THERE IS SOMEONE FROM THE TEACHERS GROUP (TG). THE TG IS PEOPLE THAT AMONG OTHERS THINGS HAVE CHOSEN TO SHARE THEIR MONEY. JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE IN THIS WORLD ONE TG CAN GET AN EMPLOYMENT. MANY PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD RECIEVE A SALARY. ALSO MANY IN THE TG. THE SALARY IS EACH PERSONS PRIVATE INCOME AND WHAT IT IS USED FOR IS NON OF YOUR BUSINESS. THOU SOME OF THAT MONEY HAS BEEN USED TO START UP AND SUPPORT DIFFERENT PROJECTS. HUMANITARIAN AS WELL AS OTHER PRIVATE INITIATIVES. AGAIN VISIT WWW.FONDEN.ORG.
(2) Why will Tvind not allow an outside and independent evaluation of Tvind development programs. Not simply a few showcase projects but a look at the breadth of Tvind activity.
YOU ARE DOING THE SAME THING I THIS QUESTION. YOU ARE ACCUSING SOME ONE FOR NOT DOING SOMETHING THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO.
A COMPARISON. YOUR NAME IS FROSIG? HOW MANY ARE YOU IN YOUR FAMILY INCLUDING RELATIVES? 5-10-15? LETS SAY THAT I AM A PERSON THAT HAVE MET 1 OF YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS. I DIDNT LIKE HIM/HER. I THINK HE WAS SMELLY AND UNPOLITE AND VERY DIS- HONEST. I HEAR RUMOURS THAT THE PARTICULAR FAMILY MEMBER OF YOURS IS SELLING DRUGS. I THINK, OH YES, THAT IS IT! I COULD THEN ASK YOU. WHY IS IT THAT THE FROSIG FAMILY IS SELLING ILLEGAL DRUGS?
YOUR REACTION MIGHT BE: 1) I DO NOT SELL DRUGS I WILL SAY 2) WHY DO YOU NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION? YOU SAY 3) I DONT SELL DRUGS I WILL SAY 4) WHY DO YOU NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION. WHAT ARE YOU HIDING? ARE YOU A PART OF A BIG QUARTEL???!!
DO YOU SEE THE DILEMMA YOU ARE IN? IF YOU ANSWER, YOU ARE A LIER. IF YOU DO NOT ANSWER YOU GET ACCUSED FOR NOT ANSWERING.
NOW BACK TO YOUR ACCUSATION OF TVIND YOU ARE STATING SOMETHING THAT IS NOT TRUE IN YOUR QUESTION!
HUMANA PEOPLE TO PEOPLE AND THE TRAVELLING FOLK HIGH SCHOOLS ARE RUNNING DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS AND PROJECTS. EVERY YEAR THE ACCOUNTS FOR EACH TRAVELLING FOLK HIGH SCHOOL IS AUDITED BY A STATE AUTHORIZED AUDITOR.
SEVERAL HAVE DONE AN EVALUTAION OF HUMANA PEOPLE TO PEOPLES WORK. -GOVERNMENTS IN AFRICA -DONORS THAT GIVES SUPPORT -SIDA -NORAD -DANCONSULT -UNIVERSITY OF GOTHENBURG -PROBABLY MANY OTHERS I DONT KNOW ABOUT
SO YOUR QUESTION IS AGAIN STATING THAT SOMETHING VERY BAD IS DONE. YOU HAVE ALLREADY MADE YOUR MIND UP AND WHAT YOU SEEM TO WORK WITH IT IS TO FIND WHATEVER YOU CAN TO PROVE IT.
(3) Why does Tvind not co-opereate with the authorities in Denmark, instead of sabotaging the police investigation, if they have nothing to hide?
IN MY OPINION. I BELIEVE THAT IS ONE SIDE OF THE STORY. MANY PEOPLE IN CONNECTION WITH WHAT YOU CALL TVIND I PERSONALLY KNOW. I ALSO KNOW THAT THEY ARE VERY COOPERATIVE AND FOLLOW THE RULES, LAWS AND REGULATIONS REQUIRED BY THE AUTHORITIES.
AS WRITTEN TO YOU EARLIER YOU SHOULD READ THE ARTICLE BY A TG MEMBER. HE EXPLAINS THE SITUATION VERY CLEARLY FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW. YOU CAN FIND IT AT www.tvind.dk. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT HIS ARGUMENTS? HAVE READ IT?
BACK TO YOUR FAMILY. THAT FAMILY MEMBER OF YOUR. WE MADE A STORY ABOUT HIM SELLING DRUGS AS A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT. WHAT ABOUT IF THE POLICE ONE DAY CAME AND STOLE YOUR COMPUTER! THE REASON IS. SOME PEOPLE SAY THAT YOUR FAMILY MEMBER IS SELLING DRUGS. HOW WOULD YOU REACT? YOU KNOW FOR SURE THAT HE IS NOT
YOU SEE I TURN THE QUESTION AGAIN!!!!!!! (NOW YOU CAN ONE MORE ARGUMENT FOR THAT THE SO CALLED PRO TVIND PEOPLE NEVER ANSWER!!!)
YOU CONTINUE SAYING; -TVINDIES ARE CRIMINAL, TVINDIES ARE CRIMINAL ETC ETC YOU ASK -WHY ARE YOU CRIMINALS?
HOW CAN ANYONE ANSWER YOU IF THEY ARE NOT CRIMINALS???
(4) Why are Tvind withholding what could be important research results, that could save lifes, and at the same time stating that they are doing a good job?
WHAT IMPORTANT SEARCH RESULT IS IT THAT IS WITHHOLDING??? I KNOW ABOUT 1 MADE FOR/BY NORAD AND THAT DID NOT GET PUBLISHED. NORAD DID NOT WANT TO LET IT OUT. FURTHER DO I NOT KNOW ABOUT ANY MORE IMPORTANT RESEARCH RESULT THAT IS KEPT AWAY.
(5)If pro Tvind folks wants to safe the earth and humanity, why not help others to help you do your work even better, by making you results available for the public?
IF YOU GO TO WWW.HUMANA.ORG I BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN FIND YEAR REPOPORTS OF HUMANAS WORK. HUMANA PEOPLE TO PEOPLE IS AN ORGANIZATION WORKING TO IMPROVE THE SITUATION FOR PEOPLE. I DO NOT THINK THE ARE THINKING ABOUT SAVING THE WORLD BUT ARE DOING THEIR BEST TO MAKE AN IMPROVEMENT.
I BELIEVE THAT THE RESULTS ARE VERY PUBLIC. YOU CAN JUST READ ABOUT IT OR ASK.
(7)Why does tvind only allow outsiders to read populistic interpretations of project evaluations?
YOU DO IT AGAIN!!! I DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING THAT WOULD MAKE THE STATEMENT TRUE.
IF it was and you really want to find out. a) Get the example. Eg Mr Sven was not allowed to read Tvindalert while at DRH ?. Write to the school and ask why. Then you might get an answer.
(8)Why does so many pro Tvind folks turn aginst us, when the only thing we want is for Tvind to become an transparent organisation (like 99pct of all non profit organisations).
WHO ARE YOU? First YOU accuse what you call TVIND to be terrorist, brain wash, steal money, indoctrinate, infiltrate, being maoist Stalinist, exploit the poor, being cult, taking away peoples freedom etc etc. THEN expect that the people accused by YOU should just sit down and be very happy for that YOU want to make a more transparent organization.??
*Tvind is not one thing. -DRH Tvind is a private institution -One World Volunteer Inst in Norway is a stiftelse -Planet AID in USA is a non profit
All for now
A few questions regarding the index page of this website: Does the layout (or the lack thereof) and choice of colours reflect the state of mind of the makers of this web site? What does the Dutch windmill logo represent? Rustic peasant thought processes? Why is the language so innately tabloidlike? (eg. "A secret commercial empire..." How can an empire be secret??) Who was heading The Small School at Winestead Hall when the unfortunate Sylvia was a student there? Did she take her complaints to him/her? How do the makers of this web site view the reliability of the UINTA leaders and why does it choose to quote this organisation rather than the UN? (On the Caxito kidnappings.)
OK. That's it for now.
:~) Anna Hoas (teacher at PTG in Tvind, but you can call me guru if you like...)
Reply to Jimmy, Yes, there has been many outsiders investigating tvind, but not in co-operation with tvind. I agree with you that "this part of the world is supposed to be free, democratic and open". But the terms "free", "democratic" and "open" isn't terms that caracterises the Tvind organisation. If you consider the tvind organisation "free", "open" and "democratic", you will proberly be able to tell me why Tvind isn't a more transperant organisation - like 99pct of all non-profit organisation. Please explain to me, why everyone that asks for more transperancy is cicked out of the organisation. I have experienced several times that TG turn aginst the ones that raises questions, that could lead to more transperancy. Why is that? Please tell me.
frosig2001@yahoo.dk
Anna and Jimmy,
Thanks for the postings. I appreciate the dialogue. For the record I am not a journalist but simply someone who experienced a Tvind school first hand and am posting here so that people thinking about joining a Tvind program get some exposure to something else besides the glossy info on Tvind websites. I don't consider this mis-information but counter information to the Tvind line. After all, why are the only links to Tvind sites from other Tvind sites?
Frankly, I find the hostility to critique/evaluation on the part of the TG troubling and a good example of the insular mindset that is the largest problem with the TG. It is convenient to discount any critique as part of an inquisition but I know from my own personal experience that there is a lot of truth to these reports. The issue is that since Tvind seems unwilling to address critiques it is destined to repeat the same problems over and over.
Matt
Hi everyone, Matt & John and whoever visits this page! I have been in the Teacher's Group, I have been working as a teacher at a school and I have been to Africa, to America, to England and many times to the Tvind schools in Denmark. I made a choice and left, because I have other things that I give priority to in my life. But it is all about a choice, a decision. you have to decide what kind of life you want to live. In the teacher's group you have common economy, common work (and it is a lot of it) and common time. Sometimes you like it, sometimes you don't, but these common things make the teacher's group work. Tomas and Ruth are now setting up the CCTG in California as you call tell by the name. I wish them all my luck and I hope that CCTG will grow and become what we hoped for when you left Norway for the US. Ruth and Tomas are two of the most honest, hard-working and inspiring people I know, so please, help them and support them to give more people a chance to develop as persons and get an experience that they will remember for the rest of their life!
and one more thing! How do you manage to keep this page alert! It must be a full time job keeping it up to date! And finding it all out! And what is the use? Do you enjoy it? Can't you see the TG is just growing and growing and growing.... And I believe they are quite harmless in comparision with many other so called sects, or transnational companies, or the IMF and the WB....
Have a nice day, and do something more useful! (Why don't volunteer for Africa?)If you want to read about my experience you can visit my homepage....
Anna
Trust me, there are many many "outsiders" investigating Tvind, and has been since we started. 70's, we were communists, 80's we suddenly became capitalistic and in the 90's we became a sect. Let's see what this century will bring us.
Since we started we've been questioned by the authorities many many times, our fond which is the "latest" news is the most investigated fond there is I think, they've tried to find something in it since 94-95 something, and still haven't succeded, maybe that is a sign on that there is nothing to hide? Or of course, we are "hiding the evidence" As all organisations we have to give away a yearly economical report that's being checked by the authorities, and correct me If I'm wrong in thinking that everything that comes from "the tvind imperium" is being examined about 200 times as throughoutly as anything else, since everybody "knows" that we are "cheating" with the papers.
Froedig, we are being examined, daily, by many different authorities, and so forth they haven't found anything to accuse us for. The "Saerloven" that has been declared illegal by the supreme court still exists..
The "truth about Tvind" phenomena has become something very similar to the inquisition and the crusades, we are being herassed by people like you daily, we see our names in the papers miscredited, we're under constant pressure from the authorities and journalists looking for anything to put their hands on, if it's not illegal they blow it up in a big headline making it illegal anyway, misinformation and slander has become an art form for the people trying to sell more papers, and Tvind sells, since everybody "knows" that we are "brainwashing people, hiding money" and have this big guru living in Bahamas taking all the money, I've never met Amdi, He has nothing to do with my daily life or weekly, or yearly...
Stop hunting us, This part of the world is supposed to be free, democratic and open... but all it is is journalists trying to sell more, authorities that builds their opinions from these newspapers and ordinary people believing what they say and put a pressure on the politicians that they must stop this "evil cult" or whatever we're called.
Everyone knew for not that many hundred years ago that the earth was the centre of the universe, that it was flat and so forth, people today "know" that Tvind is bad, hiding money and brainwashing innocent people that tries to do some good.
It's all about (mis)information, the media has given us a bad name, therefore we are "bad"
Considering the journalisic value of this webpage I wish it could make me laugh, but unfortunately it's being believed in... so therefore we can't just ignore it, it's time to start build up our good names and tell the real truth about Tvind.
About truths by the way, you wanna hear the "Truth about Tvind "luxurious cruises" with problematic kids to the carribeans"?
When we did that there were no laws saying that drug addicts has to be treated in Denmark, they made the law and we stopped the sailing. very undramatic, and trust me, they weren't no luxurious cruises.....
If you have the possibility to give something to someone who otherwise never will get anything, why not? Youngsters with problems are being run over by society, if we can give them something to be happy for it will help, much more than the ordinary scientific way of punishments....
Yes, I'm in the teachers group, and I'm proud of it.
Jimmy DNS
Reply to Kimmy
Ofcouse we shall support "the pure and the lonely" people, but not regardless how our involvement migt influence their lifes. Therefore project evaluations are important, so we can learn more about what can be done to help improve the lifes of "the pure and lonely".
Doesn't it puzzle you that Tvind will nor allow any outside and independent auditor to go examine the "books" and provide a report on expenses, income, fundraising and the effect of their development programs. If tvind did allow such examinations of their activities, many more people would proberly join aid programs, trying to help "the pour and lonely", but they don't. In this perspective one can say that tvind is working agianst the people who needs help. Who benefits from that?
frosig2001@yahoo.dk
btw, because Microsoft is a public company it is regularly audited by outside people and information on how money is spent is readily available. This includes information on the salary of Bill Gates. So ironically, Microsoft is more transparent than Tvind.
Again I ask anyone to answer if Tvind has nothing to hide, why is it so secretive.
Matt
Hello Frosig What do ou do to make a better world? I think it is amazing that you have time to sit and write so much - I think you should go and do the things as you think they should be done! There is space for all of us! So let thoose in Tvind do it in their way! You can do it in your way! I have done a lot of aid work for many years (more than 17) and I must admit by reading your page I am feeling more and more sympathy for thoose people in Tvind who go on and on even they have so much wind against them - YOU made me go there to visit 3 of the schools - and they have won a place in my heart! Thanks to great students and teachers -
Go for the best - go for support of the poor and the lonely people in this strange world! "Kimmy"
Reply from Frsig
The ones of us who fights for more transperency in the tvind organisations are asked the folowing question: "When have you ever seen Microsoft or other companies or Red cross or Child Care giving all there papir out to public desplaid."
First of all: Microsoft isn't a non-profit organisation, like the Tvind organisation clames it is.
Second, Red cross is a non-profit organisation, where all projects are evaluated by outside and independent auditors, with a sceintific background, and there results are made avalialbe for the public - go to the libery and look it up. If you cann't find it, ask for acces to sceintific databases, with references to articels and books that deals with the subject.
When you mention Child Care, I assume you are reffering to the canadian organisation called "Child Care International" (www.ccare.net). I'am not sure - please be more specific.
Frosig2001@yahoo.dk
Reply from frsig
I'am asked which questions I (together with others), have raised without getting an answer. If you call attempts to misscredit my person "answers", I will remind you that the main issues are:
(1) Why will Tvind not allow an outside and independent auditor to go examine the "books" and provide a report on expenses, income, fundraising and development programs.
(2) Why will Tvind not allow an outside and independent evaluation of Tvind development programs. Not simply a few showcase projects but a look at the breadth of Tvind activity.
(3) Why does Tvind not co-opereate with the authorities in Denmark, instaed of sabotaging the police investigation, if they have nothing to hide?
(4) Why are Tvind withholding what could be important research results, that could save lifes, and at the same time stating that they are doing a good job?
(5)If pro Tvind folks wants to safe the earth and humanity, why not help others to help you do your work even better, by making you results available for the public?
(7)Why does tvind only allow outsiders to read populistic interpretations of project evaluations?
(8)Why does so many pro Tvind folks turn aginst us, when the only thing we want is for Tvind to become an transparent organisation (like 99pct of all non profit organisations).
(9) Why have these important calls been ignored?
If Tvind went forward in an open dialog, and started answering these questions, it proberly would make many more people join.
And for the record: I second Matt in his answer to John: "I agree with you that the world is not black and white and actually I don't think anyone has said that Tvind is "only bad". Personally I think there are some very good intentioned people (particularly the volunteers) involved with Tvind but that their efforts are being undermined by the structure and mentality of the organization".
all you people who ask about more transparent in the organisation should look around in the real world. When have you ever seen Microsoft or other companies or Red cross or Child Care giving all there papir out to public desplaid. So wake up and see the reality. All you guy's are are sitting there and hide behind your computers and think you are saving the world. Let me tell you a secret, you are not saving the world from the big bad wolf all you are doing is sitting and think you are doing a lot.
to Forsig
You have got several answers!! The persons that have answered you back has maybe a different opinion then you. Tell me WHAT questions did you not get answered??
Sigh....John, I did not say that all who get involved with Tvind are poor victims. That's your interpretation. Also since I have nothing to do with this site (besides posting) I have no idea how these postings are untraceable.
Again I ask people to address the issues of Tvind's accountability and transparency.
Matt
Walt disney maked cartons. Reality isn't something you can play around with, regardless how it migth influence other peoples life. I second Matt and Frosig: It's time that Tvind starts answering the basic questions regarding the organisations transperency. See Matt's and Frogsig's letters, and stop ignoring their attempt to start a dialog.
Hi Matt
Your answer still indicates that Tvind is bad and all who get involved are poor victims.
I am not going for the person I am just reading and understanding what you write and what you do no write.
Why do you select not to answer my question: How can you guarantee that we who write here are untreaceable?
Hi John,
I agree with you that the world is not black and white and actually I don't think anyone has said that Tvind is "only bad". Personally I think there are some very good intentioned people (particularly the volunteers) involved with Tvind but that their efforts are being undermined by the structure and mentality of the organization.
I'm (and others) are simply asking for accountability and transparency from Tvind but these calls have been so far ignored.
Matt
We encourage you to research each topic for yourself: check out all the links, especially the ones that seem contrary to your views; question the motivation of the writer and publisher; and form your own opinion about the information that is being presented. We suggest that you treat all other news/information outlets in the same way - the media have strong biases which directly affect the way in which news and information is presented to you - and very often that leads to disinformation.
"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great." - Mark Twain
iq191@hotmail.com
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible." -- Walt Disney
To the alerters I do not understand: You ask us pro Tvind not to say that Tvind is only good. How come you can say it is only bad?
The world is not black and white.
John Beard iq191@hotmail.com
N.B. How can you guys guarantee that the entries are untraceable?
To Piotr Durjasz:
I have not been to CCTG but given the fact that it is a school is part of Tvind and I assume that you are a member of the Teachers Group (please correct me if I am wrong) I cannot imagine that it is much different than other Tvind schools in the US. After all when Ted Lewis began to talk about taking IICD into new directions in the late 1980s, the TG sent over Norling to take over and Ted soon left.
However, I would be happy to attend one of your informational meetings the next time you are in the San Francisco Bay. Would you let me come?
Matt
Comment to Daniel: You say There are other people who think that doing something is better, than doing nothing.
Actually I would disagree with that because often just doing something can result in a lot of pain and hardship. Check out Arturo Escobars Encountering Development : the making and unmaking of the Third World for a thorough critique of programs that just did something.
Development work is an incredible difficult task with lots and lots of unintended consequences. The classic example is the surplus grain given/sold to India during the 1950s by the US. Leaving the largely geo-political motivations aside for the moment, one of the major results was that farmers in the countryside could no longer sell their crops because the imported food was so much cheaper. The same thing goes with importing used clothing. Yes, people have access to cheaper clothing but any domestic garment industry is hard pressed to continue and people can potentially lose jobs and livelihoods.
Im not saying that one should do nothing but just doing something without thinking about the long term and unintended impacts is short-sighted. I think this is the biggest problem with Tvind development projects. I just think it is a shame for good-intentioned volunteers to join a program/project, put in lots of hard work, and not know whether it will (1) survive beyond their involvement and (2) really help people.
Matt
Hello All,
Ray/Thomas/Daniel with you replies to Frosig: In my opinion, Frosig is not setting a bad tone. In terms of stories/evidence one need only go to other parts of Tvindalert. You may say that its one-sided but there are links to Tvind sites as well.
And for the record, I second Frosigs call for Tvind to answer basic questions about its work. This is something that seems entirely reasonable and has been called for by myself and others but I have not seen any serious reply to it. Its simple and standard practice for 99 percent of non-profits.
(1) Allow an outside and independent auditor to go examine the "books" and provide a report on expenses, income, fundraising and development programs.
(2) Allow an outside and independent evaluation of Tvind development programs. Not simply a few showcase projects but a look at the breadth of Tvind activity.
Any takers? Id love to hear your responses.
Matt
Eusobio, I have no idea who you are. You have definitely mistaken me for someone else. I was a project leader. Noone sent me home. - Jafina
Reply form Frsig
I would like to go into an open dialog, just as I stated in my previous contribution (read it bellow). Please notice that there has not been a singel attempt to try to answer any of the questions i raised. I took the time to point out a startingpoint for an open dialog, and you just keep ignorig my questions. Wouldn't you agree that the information on pro-tvind site is a good starting point for an open dialog? The case seems to be that pro tvin people do not deal with critiqeul questions. Ask your teachers why, and they will proberly tell you not to bother with these matters.
I will not give pro tvind folks the oppertunity to miscredit me, just as you have tried to do with Jafina and many others. She trusted everyone here with her frightning story, and you turn aginst her like small children fighting for candy. By not givning you my story, as jafina and others have done, I hope that we could consentrate on issues that can be verified on aknowledged research websites at universities etc. But not much tvind reseach is avaliable there (and that is a fact), compared to the big word that are used on your websites. Go and check it out for yourself.
It is also a fact, that Tvind trouhg withholding what might be importent information and research results, is making it quite impossible to go into an open dialog. If you want to safe the earth and humanity as you clame, why not help others to help you do your work even better, by making you results available for the public? Why not fight for an transparent organisation, which proberly would make many more people join?
frosig2001@yahoo.dk
Mostly for today my opinion is:-
I am sick and tired of meetings and the never ending meetings, which go on and on and on......
My writing style can show that I am brainwashed.
They are pushing us to the edge, should we jump? Suicide sounds good to me but what do you think.
Someone feels fine, which is "good".
My opinion will change AGAIN tomorrow.
I am a volunteer in one of the school's and the person who is calling tvind alert is a hypocryt. Because they are basically calling british people. So They should think before writing. I am British and if you judge everyone by the history of their country, would there be any decent people left?
Hey Jafina remember me Eusebio.We where working toghether. What is this dead threat you write about? my friends and me never heard about dead threat against you but there was one againt the boss of the work group, but never against you. And you don't drink? Well i think i learn something new everyday. You where telling stories thenand for my friends and me it appear that you are still telling stories. Have you forgot why the send you home? Maybe you should tell people about that. Eusebio.
Readers: You might want to check out the crude response to my recent revelation about a frightening experience that I had. This is a typical Tvind reaction to practically every important question or comment you make -- missing the point and changing the subject. The writer accuses me of being more interested in drinking alcohol. For your information, I DON'T drink or do drugs. The point I was making is that Tvind wastes a lot of time chasing after people about a lousy drink, but when an actual threat to someone's personal security arises, they do NOTHING. - Jafina
Dear Frosig Here you go again. If I look at some of the comment I don't think that people is backing you up, but what the are doing, is backing up an open dialog. You defend yourself by hiding behind other people and the are agree with you, but I can see a lot of people who is getting tired of the way you write your letter. And then you say, "don't attack the person behind the argument" maybe if the person behind the argument was open to other peoples argument, they wouldn't attack you. Just because some people write positive things about this organisation doesnt mean that the are pro Tvind or Tvind people. There are other people who think that doing something is better, than doing nothing. So think about it and come up with some facts that people can relate to (I am not talking about what you read or create), instead of repeating the same story over and over again. I know the saying that if you repeat the same story over and over again it become a true, and reading the letters you have being sending seem to be a defend and the same story over and over again and again and again. Put some of the fact and evidence you have out here. And when I say fact and evidence I don't mean a article from a newspaper or some anonymous source, but real things that people can touch and understand and at the same time give those people you seem to hate so much, a chance to answer. I hope you will take this letter as positive critic and move on and publics some of all the evidence you appear to have. Best wishes Daniel
reply from Frsig.
Please be specifik when you accuse me of writting "in a mix of accusations and gossip". If you want to de-valuate my contributions on this site, please concentrate on the arguments instead of trying to attack the person behind the arguments. So far plenty of people has backed up my statements - are those people just theifs and lairs?
If you look at the last 20 messages only tvind pro folks are making "wild" accusations, in an abusive language.
Ofccouse I could write more about my own experiences, but I don't consider this guestbook a history-board. I started writing on this site because students at tvind scholls are being misled by their Teachers, in an attempt to make them join a tvind-program. Therefore I find it importen to reveal the values the tvind-organisation builds on. Ofcause this work would be much easyer if the oragnisation would provide one with the scientific data, that schould back up all their attivements - but they will not. And if their dispotions and money transacts where transperant, but they are not. Is it wrong of me to insist that a suposed non-profit organisation like tvind starts to open up, and public its research, instaed of holding it for it self, and at the same time stating that they are doing a good job? You can say that the information is available on tvind sites - but this information is just populistic interpretations of their own results ore statements from politicians. Why does the organisation not trust that people are capable of interpreting the data's themselves - some people, other than tvind folks, actually are competent enough to do the job. If this information was available, I would be happy to contribute in a more constructive maner. And please don't tell to go to www.fonden.org - it is worhtless. If you disagree, please tell me wich parts isn't, and why that is. (I assume you consider all the informaion on this site of great value)
frosig2001@yahoo.dk
Dear Jafina I can imaging the fear you had with this dead threat hangimg over you. But i do notice that you seems more upset about not being able to drink (EVER in capital letter) than the actual threat.
Dear Frsig If you loking at the last 10 entry then i think you would see that people are trying to keep a good tone. If you then look at the things you write then the tone change into a mix of accusation and gossip. So when you are complaning about the tone then you are accusing yourself. So instead of just writing about things that you have picked up or think that you might have heard, then maybe you should try to help creating a forum for discusion instead. Someone wrote in a previous letter that the Tvind people didn't want to partipate in a discusion with changes of arguments and fact, but when i read your coment i is most likely you who don't want this dialog. You just continue saying that the won't, without trying to do it yourself.
Thomas
I was just about to join DRH in Denmark, until my vist on this page.
Thank you!
Now I know why you have not even written this questions down here in the guestbook. They are not questions but statements. I have tried to comment on each of your question/statement but am not sure if you will be happy with it. At least a try.
1) Why will Tvind not allow an outside and independent auditor to go examine the "books" and provide a report on expenses, income, fundraising and development programs.
a) IT IS ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO ANSWER YOUR QUESTION AND I CAN SEE HOW SOME WOULD "GIVE UP" TRYING TO ANSWER YOU. I WILL GIVE IT A TRY BUT DONT NOW IF YOU WILL BE SATIFISFIED.
FIRST OFF ALL. YOU ARE STATING SOMETHING IN THE QUESTION THAT IS NOT TRUE. THAT MAKES IT VERY DIFFICULT TO ANSWER. IT IS NOT POSSIBLE TO ANSWER WHY IF YOU DO NOT DO WHAT YOU ARE STATING.
EACH TRAVELING SCHOOL (TRAINING DEVELOPMENT INSTRUCTORS) ARE GETTING THEIR BOOKS AUDITED BY A STATE AUTHORIZED INDEPENDENT AUDITOR. STOP WRITING YOUR FALSE ACCUSATIONS
SECONDLY... TVIND IS NOT A NON PROFIT ORGANIZATION. TVIND IS THE NAME THAT THE MEDIA(OR WHO EVER) HAVE GIVEN TO ACTIVITIES/PROJECTS/SCHOOLS/BUSINESS ETC WHERE THERE IS SOMEONE FROM THE TEACHERS GROUP (TG). THE TG IS PEOPLE THAT AMONG OTHERS THINGS HAVE CHOSEN TO SHARE THEIR MONEY. JUST LIKE ANYONE ELSE IN THIS WORLD ONE TG CAN GET AN EMPLOYMENT. MANY PEOPLE IN THIS WORLD RECIEVE A SALARY. ALSO MANY IN THE TG. THE SALARY IS EACH PERSONS PRIVATE INCOME AND WHAT IT IS USED FOR IS NON OF YOUR BUSINESS. THOU SOME OF THAT MONEY HAS BEEN USED TO START UP AND SUPPORT DIFFERENT PROJECTS. HUMANITARIAN AS WELL AS OTHER PRIVATE INITIATIVES. AGAIN VISIT WWW.FONDEN.ORG.
(2) Why will Tvind not allow an outside and independent evaluation of Tvind development programs. Not simply a few showcase projects but a look at the breadth of Tvind activity.
YOU ARE DOING THE SAME THING I THIS QUESTION. YOU ARE ACCUSING SOME ONE FOR NOT DOING SOMETHING THAT THEY ARE SUPPOSED TO.
A COMPARISON. YOUR NAME IS FROSIG? HOW MANY ARE YOU IN YOUR FAMILY INCLUDING RELATIVES? 5-10-15? LETS SAY THAT I AM A PERSON THAT HAVE MET 1 OF YOUR FAMILY MEMBERS. I DIDNT LIKE HIM/HER. I THINK HE WAS SMELLY AND UNPOLITE AND VERY DIS- HONEST. I HEAR RUMOURS THAT THE PARTICULAR FAMILY MEMBER OF YOURS IS SELLING DRUGS. I THINK, OH YES, THAT IS IT! I COULD THEN ASK YOU. WHY IS IT THAT THE FROSIG FAMILY IS SELLING ILLEGAL DRUGS?
YOUR REACTION MIGHT BE: 1) I DO NOT SELL DRUGS I WILL SAY 2) WHY DO YOU NOT ANSWER MY QUESTION? YOU SAY 3) I DONT SELL DRUGS I WILL SAY 4) WHY DO YOU NOT ANSWER THE QUESTION. WHAT ARE YOU HIDING? ARE YOU A PART OF A BIG QUARTEL???!!
DO YOU SEE THE DILEMMA YOU ARE IN? IF YOU ANSWER, YOU ARE A LIER. IF YOU DO NOT ANSWER YOU GET ACCUSED FOR NOT ANSWERING.
NOW BACK TO YOUR ACCUSATION OF TVIND YOU ARE STATING SOMETHING THAT IS NOT TRUE IN YOUR QUESTION!
HUMANA PEOPLE TO PEOPLE AND THE TRAVELLING FOLK HIGH SCHOOLS ARE RUNNING DEVELOPMENT PROGRAMS AND PROJECTS. EVERY YEAR THE ACCOUNTS FOR EACH TRAVELLING FOLK HIGH SCHOOL IS AUDITED BY A STATE AUTHORIZED AUDITOR.
SEVERAL HAVE DONE AN EVALUTAION OF HUMANA PEOPLE TO PEOPLES WORK. -GOVERNMENTS IN AFRICA -DONORS THAT GIVES SUPPORT -SIDA -NORAD -DANCONSULT -UNIVERSITY OF GOTHENBURG -PROBABLY MANY OTHERS I DONT KNOW ABOUT
SO YOUR QUESTION IS AGAIN STATING THAT SOMETHING VERY BAD IS DONE. YOU HAVE ALLREADY MADE YOUR MIND UP AND WHAT YOU SEEM TO WORK WITH IT IS TO FIND WHATEVER YOU CAN TO PROVE IT.
(3) Why does Tvind not co-opereate with the authorities in Denmark, instead of sabotaging the police investigation, if they have nothing to hide?
IN MY OPINION. I BELIEVE THAT IS ONE SIDE OF THE STORY. MANY PEOPLE IN CONNECTION WITH WHAT YOU CALL TVIND I PERSONALLY KNOW. I ALSO KNOW THAT THEY ARE VERY COOPERATIVE AND FOLLOW THE RULES, LAWS AND REGULATIONS REQUIRED BY THE AUTHORITIES.
AS WRITTEN TO YOU EARLIER YOU SHOULD READ THE ARTICLE BY A TG MEMBER. HE EXPLAINS THE SITUATION VERY CLEARLY FROM HIS POINT OF VIEW. YOU CAN FIND IT AT www.tvind.dk. WHAT DO YOU THINK ABOUT HIS ARGUMENTS? HAVE READ IT?
BACK TO YOUR FAMILY. THAT FAMILY MEMBER OF YOUR. WE MADE A STORY ABOUT HIM SELLING DRUGS AS A THOUGHT EXPERIMENT. WHAT ABOUT IF THE POLICE ONE DAY CAME AND STOLE YOUR COMPUTER! THE REASON IS. SOME PEOPLE SAY THAT YOUR FAMILY MEMBER IS SELLING DRUGS. HOW WOULD YOU REACT? YOU KNOW FOR SURE THAT HE IS NOT
YOU SEE I TURN THE QUESTION AGAIN!!!!!!! (NOW YOU CAN ONE MORE ARGUMENT FOR THAT THE SO CALLED PRO TVIND PEOPLE NEVER ANSWER!!!)
YOU CONTINUE SAYING; -TVINDIES ARE CRIMINAL, TVINDIES ARE CRIMINAL ETC ETC YOU ASK -WHY ARE YOU CRIMINALS?
HOW CAN ANYONE ANSWER YOU IF THEY ARE NOT CRIMINALS???
(4) Why are Tvind withholding what could be important research results, that could save lifes, and at the same time stating that they are doing a good job?
WHAT IMPORTANT SEARCH RESULT IS IT THAT IS WITHHOLDING??? I KNOW ABOUT 1 MADE FOR/BY NORAD AND THAT DID NOT GET PUBLISHED. NORAD DID NOT WANT TO LET IT OUT. FURTHER DO I NOT KNOW ABOUT ANY MORE IMPORTANT RESEARCH RESULT THAT IS KEPT AWAY.
(5)If pro Tvind folks wants to safe the earth and humanity, why not help others to help you do your work even better, by making you results available for the public?
IF YOU GO TO WWW.HUMANA.ORG I BELIEVE THAT YOU CAN FIND YEAR REPOPORTS OF HUMANAS WORK. HUMANA PEOPLE TO PEOPLE IS AN ORGANIZATION WORKING TO IMPROVE THE SITUATION FOR PEOPLE. I DO NOT THINK THE ARE THINKING ABOUT SAVING THE WORLD BUT ARE DOING THEIR BEST TO MAKE AN IMPROVEMENT.
I BELIEVE THAT THE RESULTS ARE VERY PUBLIC. YOU CAN JUST READ ABOUT IT OR ASK.
(7)Why does tvind only allow outsiders to read populistic interpretations of project evaluations?
YOU DO IT AGAIN!!! I DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING THAT WOULD MAKE THE STATEMENT TRUE.
IF it was and you really want to find out. a) Get the example. Eg Mr Sven was not allowed to read Tvindalert while at DRH ?. Write to the school and ask why. Then you might get an answer.
(8)Why does so many pro Tvind folks turn aginst us, when the only thing we want is for Tvind to become an transparent organisation (like 99pct of all non profit organisations).
WHO ARE YOU? First YOU accuse what you call TVIND to be terrorist, brain wash, steal money, indoctrinate, infiltrate, being maoist Stalinist, exploit the poor, being cult, taking away peoples freedom etc etc. THEN expect that the people accused by YOU should just sit down and be very happy for that YOU want to make a more transparent organization.??
*Tvind is not one thing. -DRH Tvind is a private institution -One World Volunteer Inst in Norway is a stiftelse -Planet AID in USA is a non profit
All for now
A few questions regarding the index page of this website: Does the layout (or the lack thereof) and choice of colours reflect the state of mind of the makers of this web site? What does the Dutch windmill logo represent? Rustic peasant thought processes? Why is the language so innately tabloidlike? (eg. "A secret commercial empire..." How can an empire be secret??) Who was heading The Small School at Winestead Hall when the unfortunate Sylvia was a student there? Did she take her complaints to him/her? How do the makers of this web site view the reliability of the UINTA leaders and why does it choose to quote this organisation rather than the UN? (On the Caxito kidnappings.)
OK. That's it for now.
:~) Anna Hoas (teacher at PTG in Tvind, but you can call me guru if you like...)
Reply to Jimmy, Yes, there has been many outsiders investigating tvind, but not in co-operation with tvind. I agree with you that "this part of the world is supposed to be free, democratic and open". But the terms "free", "democratic" and "open" isn't terms that caracterises the Tvind organisation. If you consider the tvind organisation "free", "open" and "democratic", you will proberly be able to tell me why Tvind isn't a more transperant organisation - like 99pct of all non-profit organisation. Please explain to me, why everyone that asks for more transperancy is cicked out of the organisation. I have experienced several times that TG turn aginst the ones that raises questions, that could lead to more transperancy. Why is that? Please tell me.
frosig2001@yahoo.dk
Anna and Jimmy,
Thanks for the postings. I appreciate the dialogue. For the record I am not a journalist but simply someone who experienced a Tvind school first hand and am posting here so that people thinking about joining a Tvind program get some exposure to something else besides the glossy info on Tvind websites. I don't consider this mis-information but counter information to the Tvind line. After all, why are the only links to Tvind sites from other Tvind sites?
Frankly, I find the hostility to critique/evaluation on the part of the TG troubling and a good example of the insular mindset that is the largest problem with the TG. It is convenient to discount any critique as part of an inquisition but I know from my own personal experience that there is a lot of truth to these reports. The issue is that since Tvind seems unwilling to address critiques it is destined to repeat the same problems over and over.
Matt
Hi everyone, Matt & John and whoever visits this page! I have been in the Teacher's Group, I have been working as a teacher at a school and I have been to Africa, to America, to England and many times to the Tvind schools in Denmark. I made a choice and left, because I have other things that I give priority to in my life. But it is all about a choice, a decision. you have to decide what kind of life you want to live. In the teacher's group you have common economy, common work (and it is a lot of it) and common time. Sometimes you like it, sometimes you don't, but these common things make the teacher's group work. Tomas and Ruth are now setting up the CCTG in California as you call tell by the name. I wish them all my luck and I hope that CCTG will grow and become what we hoped for when you left Norway for the US. Ruth and Tomas are two of the most honest, hard-working and inspiring people I know, so please, help them and support them to give more people a chance to develop as persons and get an experience that they will remember for the rest of their life!
and one more thing! How do you manage to keep this page alert! It must be a full time job keeping it up to date! And finding it all out! And what is the use? Do you enjoy it? Can't you see the TG is just growing and growing and growing.... And I believe they are quite harmless in comparision with many other so called sects, or transnational companies, or the IMF and the WB....
Have a nice day, and do something more useful! (Why don't volunteer for Africa?)If you want to read about my experience you can visit my homepage....
Anna
Trust me, there are many many "outsiders" investigating Tvind, and has been since we started. 70's, we were communists, 80's we suddenly became capitalistic and in the 90's we became a sect. Let's see what this century will bring us.
Since we started we've been questioned by the authorities many many times, our fond which is the "latest" news is the most investigated fond there is I think, they've tried to find something in it since 94-95 something, and still haven't succeded, maybe that is a sign on that there is nothing to hide? Or of course, we are "hiding the evidence" As all organisations we have to give away a yearly economical report that's being checked by the authorities, and correct me If I'm wrong in thinking that everything that comes from "the tvind imperium" is being examined about 200 times as throughoutly as anything else, since everybody "knows" that we are "cheating" with the papers.
Froedig, we are being examined, daily, by many different authorities, and so forth they haven't found anything to accuse us for. The "Saerloven" that has been declared illegal by the supreme court still exists..
The "truth about Tvind" phenomena has become something very similar to the inquisition and the crusades, we are being herassed by people like you daily, we see our names in the papers miscredited, we're under constant pressure from the authorities and journalists looking for anything to put their hands on, if it's not illegal they blow it up in a big headline making it illegal anyway, misinformation and slander has become an art form for the people trying to sell more papers, and Tvind sells, since everybody "knows" that we are "brainwashing people, hiding money" and have this big guru living in Bahamas taking all the money, I've never met Amdi, He has nothing to do with my daily life or weekly, or yearly...
Stop hunting us, This part of the world is supposed to be free, democratic and open... but all it is is journalists trying to sell more, authorities that builds their opinions from these newspapers and ordinary people believing what they say and put a pressure on the politicians that they must stop this "evil cult" or whatever we're called.
Everyone knew for not that many hundred years ago that the earth was the centre of the universe, that it was flat and so forth, people today "know" that Tvind is bad, hiding money and brainwashing innocent people that tries to do some good.
It's all about (mis)information, the media has given us a bad name, therefore we are "bad"
Considering the journalisic value of this webpage I wish it could make me laugh, but unfortunately it's being believed in... so therefore we can't just ignore it, it's time to start build up our good names and tell the real truth about Tvind.
About truths by the way, you wanna hear the "Truth about Tvind "luxurious cruises" with problematic kids to the carribeans"?
When we did that there were no laws saying that drug addicts has to be treated in Denmark, they made the law and we stopped the sailing. very undramatic, and trust me, they weren't no luxurious cruises.....
If you have the possibility to give something to someone who otherwise never will get anything, why not? Youngsters with problems are being run over by society, if we can give them something to be happy for it will help, much more than the ordinary scientific way of punishments....
Yes, I'm in the teachers group, and I'm proud of it.
Jimmy DNS
Reply to Kimmy
Ofcouse we shall support "the pure and the lonely" people, but not regardless how our involvement migt influence their lifes. Therefore project evaluations are important, so we can learn more about what can be done to help improve the lifes of "the pure and lonely".
Doesn't it puzzle you that Tvind will nor allow any outside and independent auditor to go examine the "books" and provide a report on expenses, income, fundraising and the effect of their development programs. If tvind did allow such examinations of their activities, many more people would proberly join aid programs, trying to help "the pour and lonely", but they don't. In this perspective one can say that tvind is working agianst the people who needs help. Who benefits from that?
frosig2001@yahoo.dk
btw, because Microsoft is a public company it is regularly audited by outside people and information on how money is spent is readily available. This includes information on the salary of Bill Gates. So ironically, Microsoft is more transparent than Tvind.
Again I ask anyone to answer if Tvind has nothing to hide, why is it so secretive.
Matt
Hello Frosig What do ou do to make a better world? I think it is amazing that you have time to sit and write so much - I think you should go and do the things as you think they should be done! There is space for all of us! So let thoose in Tvind do it in their way! You can do it in your way! I have done a lot of aid work for many years (more than 17) and I must admit by reading your page I am feeling more and more sympathy for thoose people in Tvind who go on and on even they have so much wind against them - YOU made me go there to visit 3 of the schools - and they have won a place in my heart! Thanks to great students and teachers -
Go for the best - go for support of the poor and the lonely people in this strange world! "Kimmy"
Reply from Frsig
The ones of us who fights for more transperency in the tvind organisations are asked the folowing question: "When have you ever seen Microsoft or other companies or Red cross or Child Care giving all there papir out to public desplaid."
First of all: Microsoft isn't a non-profit organisation, like the Tvind organisation clames it is.
Second, Red cross is a non-profit organisation, where all projects are evaluated by outside and independent auditors, with a sceintific background, and there results are made avalialbe for the public - go to the libery and look it up. If you cann't find it, ask for acces to sceintific databases, with references to articels and books that deals with the subject.
When you mention Child Care, I assume you are reffering to the canadian organisation called "Child Care International" (www.ccare.net). I'am not sure - please be more specific.
Frosig2001@yahoo.dk
Reply from frsig
I'am asked which questions I (together with others), have raised without getting an answer. If you call attempts to misscredit my person "answers", I will remind you that the main issues are:
(1) Why will Tvind not allow an outside and independent auditor to go examine the "books" and provide a report on expenses, income, fundraising and development programs.
(2) Why will Tvind not allow an outside and independent evaluation of Tvind development programs. Not simply a few showcase projects but a look at the breadth of Tvind activity.
(3) Why does Tvind not co-opereate with the authorities in Denmark, instaed of sabotaging the police investigation, if they have nothing to hide?
(4) Why are Tvind withholding what could be important research results, that could save lifes, and at the same time stating that they are doing a good job?
(5)If pro Tvind folks wants to safe the earth and humanity, why not help others to help you do your work even better, by making you results available for the public?
(7)Why does tvind only allow outsiders to read populistic interpretations of project evaluations?
(8)Why does so many pro Tvind folks turn aginst us, when the only thing we want is for Tvind to become an transparent organisation (like 99pct of all non profit organisations).
(9) Why have these important calls been ignored?
If Tvind went forward in an open dialog, and started answering these questions, it proberly would make many more people join.
And for the record: I second Matt in his answer to John: "I agree with you that the world is not black and white and actually I don't think anyone has said that Tvind is "only bad". Personally I think there are some very good intentioned people (particularly the volunteers) involved with Tvind but that their efforts are being undermined by the structure and mentality of the organization".
all you people who ask about more transparent in the organisation should look around in the real world. When have you ever seen Microsoft or other companies or Red cross or Child Care giving all there papir out to public desplaid. So wake up and see the reality. All you guy's are are sitting there and hide behind your computers and think you are saving the world. Let me tell you a secret, you are not saving the world from the big bad wolf all you are doing is sitting and think you are doing a lot.
to Forsig
You have got several answers!! The persons that have answered you back has maybe a different opinion then you. Tell me WHAT questions did you not get answered??
Sigh....John, I did not say that all who get involved with Tvind are poor victims. That's your interpretation. Also since I have nothing to do with this site (besides posting) I have no idea how these postings are untraceable.
Again I ask people to address the issues of Tvind's accountability and transparency.
Matt
Walt disney maked cartons. Reality isn't something you can play around with, regardless how it migth influence other peoples life. I second Matt and Frosig: It's time that Tvind starts answering the basic questions regarding the organisations transperency. See Matt's and Frogsig's letters, and stop ignoring their attempt to start a dialog.
Hi Matt
Your answer still indicates that Tvind is bad and all who get involved are poor victims.
I am not going for the person I am just reading and understanding what you write and what you do no write.
Why do you select not to answer my question: How can you guarantee that we who write here are untreaceable?
Hi John,
I agree with you that the world is not black and white and actually I don't think anyone has said that Tvind is "only bad". Personally I think there are some very good intentioned people (particularly the volunteers) involved with Tvind but that their efforts are being undermined by the structure and mentality of the organization.
I'm (and others) are simply asking for accountability and transparency from Tvind but these calls have been so far ignored.
Matt
We encourage you to research each topic for yourself: check out all the links, especially the ones that seem contrary to your views; question the motivation of the writer and publisher; and form your own opinion about the information that is being presented. We suggest that you treat all other news/information outlets in the same way - the media have strong biases which directly affect the way in which news and information is presented to you - and very often that leads to disinformation.
"Keep away from people who try to belittle your ambitions. Small people always do that, but the really great make you feel that you, too, can become great." - Mark Twain
iq191@hotmail.com
"It's kind of fun to do the impossible." -- Walt Disney
To the alerters I do not understand: You ask us pro Tvind not to say that Tvind is only good. How come you can say it is only bad?
The world is not black and white.
John Beard iq191@hotmail.com
N.B. How can you guys guarantee that the entries are untraceable?
To Piotr Durjasz:
I have not been to CCTG but given the fact that it is a school is part of Tvind and I assume that you are a member of the Teachers Group (please correct me if I am wrong) I cannot imagine that it is much different than other Tvind schools in the US. After all when Ted Lewis began to talk about taking IICD into new directions in the late 1980s, the TG sent over Norling to take over and Ted soon left.
However, I would be happy to attend one of your informational meetings the next time you are in the San Francisco Bay. Would you let me come?
Matt
Comment to Daniel: You say There are other people who think that doing something is better, than doing nothing.
Actually I would disagree with that because often just doing something can result in a lot of pain and hardship. Check out Arturo Escobars Encountering Development : the making and unmaking of the Third World for a thorough critique of programs that just did something.
Development work is an incredible difficult task with lots and lots of unintended consequences. The classic example is the surplus grain given/sold to India during the 1950s by the US. Leaving the largely geo-political motivations aside for the moment, one of the major results was that farmers in the countryside could no longer sell their crops because the imported food was so much cheaper. The same thing goes with importing used clothing. Yes, people have access to cheaper clothing but any domestic garment industry is hard pressed to continue and people can potentially lose jobs and livelihoods.
Im not saying that one should do nothing but just doing something without thinking about the long term and unintended impacts is short-sighted. I think this is the biggest problem with Tvind development projects. I just think it is a shame for good-intentioned volunteers to join a program/project, put in lots of hard work, and not know whether it will (1) survive beyond their involvement and (2) really help people.
Matt
Hello All,
Ray/Thomas/Daniel with you replies to Frosig: In my opinion, Frosig is not setting a bad tone. In terms of stories/evidence one need only go to other parts of Tvindalert. You may say that its one-sided but there are links to Tvind sites as well.
And for the record, I second Frosigs call for Tvind to answer basic questions about its work. This is something that seems entirely reasonable and has been called for by myself and others but I have not seen any serious reply to it. Its simple and standard practice for 99 percent of non-profits.
(1) Allow an outside and independent auditor to go examine the "books" and provide a report on expenses, income, fundraising and development programs.
(2) Allow an outside and independent evaluation of Tvind development programs. Not simply a few showcase projects but a look at the breadth of Tvind activity.
Any takers? Id love to hear your responses.
Matt
Eusobio, I have no idea who you are. You have definitely mistaken me for someone else. I was a project leader. Noone sent me home. - Jafina
Reply form Frsig
I would like to go into an open dialog, just as I stated in my previous contribution (read it bellow). Please notice that there has not been a singel attempt to try to answer any of the questions i raised. I took the time to point out a startingpoint for an open dialog, and you just keep ignorig my questions. Wouldn't you agree that the information on pro-tvind site is a good starting point for an open dialog? The case seems to be that pro tvin people do not deal with critiqeul questions. Ask your teachers why, and they will proberly tell you not to bother with these matters.
I will not give pro tvind folks the oppertunity to miscredit me, just as you have tried to do with Jafina and many others. She trusted everyone here with her frightning story, and you turn aginst her like small children fighting for candy. By not givning you my story, as jafina and others have done, I hope that we could consentrate on issues that can be verified on aknowledged research websites at universities etc. But not much tvind reseach is avaliable there (and that is a fact), compared to the big word that are used on your websites. Go and check it out for yourself.
It is also a fact, that Tvind trouhg withholding what might be importent information and research results, is making it quite impossible to go into an open dialog. If you want to safe the earth and humanity as you clame, why not help others to help you do your work even better, by making you results available for the public? Why not fight for an transparent organisation, which proberly would make many more people join?
frosig2001@yahoo.dk
Mostly for today my opinion is:-
I am sick and tired of meetings and the never ending meetings, which go on and on and on......
My writing style can show that I am brainwashed.
They are pushing us to the edge, should we jump? Suicide sounds good to me but what do you think.
Someone feels fine, which is "good".
My opinion will change AGAIN tomorrow.
I am a volunteer in one of the school's and the person who is calling tvind alert is a hypocryt. Because they are basically calling british people. So They should think before writing. I am British and if you judge everyone by the history of their country, would there be any decent people left?
Hey Jafina remember me Eusebio.We where working toghether. What is this dead threat you write about? my friends and me never heard about dead threat against you but there was one againt the boss of the work group, but never against you. And you don't drink? Well i think i learn something new everyday. You where telling stories thenand for my friends and me it appear that you are still telling stories. Have you forgot why the send you home? Maybe you should tell people about that. Eusebio.
Readers: You might want to check out the crude response to my recent revelation about a frightening experience that I had. This is a typical Tvind reaction to practically every important question or comment you make -- missing the point and changing the subject. The writer accuses me of being more interested in drinking alcohol. For your information, I DON'T drink or do drugs. The point I was making is that Tvind wastes a lot of time chasing after people about a lousy drink, but when an actual threat to someone's personal security arises, they do NOTHING. - Jafina
Dear Frosig Here you go again. If I look at some of the comment I don't think that people is backing you up, but what the are doing, is backing up an open dialog. You defend yourself by hiding behind other people and the are agree with you, but I can see a lot of people who is getting tired of the way you write your letter. And then you say, "don't attack the person behind the argument" maybe if the person behind the argument was open to other peoples argument, they wouldn't attack you. Just because some people write positive things about this organisation doesnt mean that the are pro Tvind or Tvind people. There are other people who think that doing something is better, than doing nothing. So think about it and come up with some facts that people can relate to (I am not talking about what you read or create), instead of repeating the same story over and over again. I know the saying that if you repeat the same story over and over again it become a true, and reading the letters you have being sending seem to be a defend and the same story over and over again and again and again. Put some of the fact and evidence you have out here. And when I say fact and evidence I don't mean a article from a newspaper or some anonymous source, but real things that people can touch and understand and at the same time give those people you seem to hate so much, a chance to answer. I hope you will take this letter as positive critic and move on and publics some of all the evidence you appear to have. Best wishes Daniel
✍️ Sign the New Guestbook
Add your own entry to the current guestbook. Sign the guestbook →