TV interviews

 

6th January 2000

BBC and Tyne Tees Television  -  unbroadcast

With Uwe and Simone Pickhan

Interviewer:  When did you become aware of the sort of place your sister was in?

Uwe Pickhan (student's brother):  My sister was at home for the Christmas holidays and then she had contact with the other students by email and the father of one girl found on the Internet some information about the school, and the girls phoned together and we went to the Internet and red all this information  and then we got scared about this organisation.

Interviewer:  What scared you?

Uwe Pickhan:   What was scaring was that they...stand alone in Africa, they get an education here for about six months and then they go to Angola or Mozambique and there are people give statements on the Internet they have been there, and told that there is no medical care, no-one will help you there, you can't phone or contact relatives, and you can get ill...like malaria, or something like this. 

Interviewer:  Now your sister is a very caring person and her ambition is to work in the Third World, work in Africa, and help people who are less fortunate than herself.   When you read this, you were concerned obviously for her.  What did you decide to do?

Uwe Pickhan:   I thought she's young and innocent and she said, oh, here I am I want to help the world, I want to change the world, and she is too young to know about the bad people.   Because she must give money to the school and then she worked there, she does newspapers, and for her it's all normal.   For me, it sounds like Hare Krishna.   Prostitution. 

Interviewer:    Having come here with Simone, what do you intend to do now?

Uwe Pickhan:   We want to have our money back, and her stuff from there, and tomorrow we're leaving, home.  Because, if she's alone here, maybe she'd get brainwashed or....I don't know.  

Interviewer:     It's obviously a very emotional disturbance for you, your little sister, in this situation  What about the other students and other young people?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yesterday evening we had a meeting and it was all new for them, because a new confrontation, their little world was going down and...they don't believe us.   So we talked to them.  And they said, How can we trust you?   We answered, you must not trust us.   It's information for you, I'm here for my sister, to get her back home, and we want to inform you, that you know, what kind of school is this.

Interviewer:   Did you have any idea, when she first applied here, that there was all this background, there was all this history?

Uwe Pickhan: No.  My sister was alone in Guatemala, she learned Spanish there with Indian people, she was working on a banana plantation, all these things, and we were not scared, but with this information and background, this... bad things.

Interviewer:   Do you think that this organisation takes advantage of young people, young people's idealistic view of the world?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yes, I think so.  They catch them, ... meaning we can change the world and we can help good people, and they have to pay a lot of money before, she paid 2,000 and there are 12 other people so that is 24,000, that's a year's salary for a worker, I don't know.   And the building is in a very bad condition...they have no windows, they have to have plastic foil on the windows, and everything is dirty and old, so they make money with them.

Interviewer:  What would you say to anyone thinking of joining this organisation?

Uwe Pickhan:   Don't do that, be careful, read the Internet web pages, ask other people, and go to the Red Cross or some organisation like this, but not to Humana or the Tvind people.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Uwe Pickhan (student's brother):  My sister was at home for the Christmas holidays and then she had contact with the other students by email and the father of one girl found on the Internet some information about the school, and the girls phoned together and we went to the Internet and red all this information  and then we got scared about this organisation.

Interviewer:  What scared you?

Uwe Pickhan:   What was scaring was that they...stand alone in Africa, they get an education here for about six months and then they go to Angola or Mozambique and there are people give statements on the Internet they have been there, and told that there is no medical care, no-one will help you there, you can't phone or contact relatives, and you can get ill...like malaria, or something like this. 

Interviewer:  Now your sister is a very caring person and her ambition is to work in the Third World, work in Africa, and help people who are less fortunate than herself.   When you read this, you were concerned obviously for her.  What did you decide to do?

Uwe Pickhan:   I thought she's young and innocent and she said, oh, here I am I want to help the world, I want to change the world, and she is too young to know about the bad people.   Because she must give money to the school and then she worked there, she does newspapers, and for her it's all normal.   For me, it sounds like Hare Krishna.   Prostitution. 

Interviewer:    Having come here with Simone, what do you intend to do now?

Uwe Pickhan:   We want to have our money back, and her stuff from there, and tomorrow we're leaving, home.  Because, if she's alone here, maybe she'd get brainwashed or....I don't know.  

Interviewer:     It's obviously a very emotional disturbance for you, your little sister, in this situation  What about the other students and other young people?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yesterday evening we had a meeting and it was all new for them, because a new confrontation, their little world was going down and...they don't believe us.   So we talked to them.  And they said, How can we trust you?   We answered, you must not trust us.   It's information for you, I'm here for my sister, to get her back home, and we want to inform you, that you know, what kind of school is this.

Interviewer:   Did you have any idea, when she first applied here, that there was all this background, there was all this history?

Uwe Pickhan: No.  My sister was alone in Guatemala, she learned Spanish there with Indian people, she was working on a banana plantation, all these things, and we were not scared, but with this information and background, this... bad things.

Interviewer:   Do you think that this organisation takes advantage of young people, young people's idealistic view of the world?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yes, I think so.  They catch them, ... meaning we can change the world and we can help good people, and they have to pay a lot of money before, she paid 2,000 and there are 12 other people so that is 24,000, that's a year's salary for a worker, I don't know.   And the building is in a very bad condition...they have no windows, they have to have plastic foil on the windows, and everything is dirty and old, so they make money with them.

Interviewer:  What would you say to anyone thinking of joining this organisation?

Uwe Pickhan:   Don't do that, be careful, read the Internet web pages, ask other people, and go to the Red Cross or some organisation like this, but not to Humana or the Tvind people.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Interviewer:  What scared you?

Uwe Pickhan:   What was scaring was that they...stand alone in Africa, they get an education here for about six months and then they go to Angola or Mozambique and there are people give statements on the Internet they have been there, and told that there is no medical care, no-one will help you there, you can't phone or contact relatives, and you can get ill...like malaria, or something like this. 

Interviewer:  Now your sister is a very caring person and her ambition is to work in the Third World, work in Africa, and help people who are less fortunate than herself.   When you read this, you were concerned obviously for her.  What did you decide to do?

Uwe Pickhan:   I thought she's young and innocent and she said, oh, here I am I want to help the world, I want to change the world, and she is too young to know about the bad people.   Because she must give money to the school and then she worked there, she does newspapers, and for her it's all normal.   For me, it sounds like Hare Krishna.   Prostitution. 

Interviewer:    Having come here with Simone, what do you intend to do now?

Uwe Pickhan:   We want to have our money back, and her stuff from there, and tomorrow we're leaving, home.  Because, if she's alone here, maybe she'd get brainwashed or....I don't know.  

Interviewer:     It's obviously a very emotional disturbance for you, your little sister, in this situation  What about the other students and other young people?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yesterday evening we had a meeting and it was all new for them, because a new confrontation, their little world was going down and...they don't believe us.   So we talked to them.  And they said, How can we trust you?   We answered, you must not trust us.   It's information for you, I'm here for my sister, to get her back home, and we want to inform you, that you know, what kind of school is this.

Interviewer:   Did you have any idea, when she first applied here, that there was all this background, there was all this history?

Uwe Pickhan: No.  My sister was alone in Guatemala, she learned Spanish there with Indian people, she was working on a banana plantation, all these things, and we were not scared, but with this information and background, this... bad things.

Interviewer:   Do you think that this organisation takes advantage of young people, young people's idealistic view of the world?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yes, I think so.  They catch them, ... meaning we can change the world and we can help good people, and they have to pay a lot of money before, she paid 2,000 and there are 12 other people so that is 24,000, that's a year's salary for a worker, I don't know.   And the building is in a very bad condition...they have no windows, they have to have plastic foil on the windows, and everything is dirty and old, so they make money with them.

Interviewer:  What would you say to anyone thinking of joining this organisation?

Uwe Pickhan:   Don't do that, be careful, read the Internet web pages, ask other people, and go to the Red Cross or some organisation like this, but not to Humana or the Tvind people.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Uwe Pickhan:   What was scaring was that they...stand alone in Africa, they get an education here for about six months and then they go to Angola or Mozambique and there are people give statements on the Internet they have been there, and told that there is no medical care, no-one will help you there, you can't phone or contact relatives, and you can get ill...like malaria, or something like this. 

Interviewer:  Now your sister is a very caring person and her ambition is to work in the Third World, work in Africa, and help people who are less fortunate than herself.   When you read this, you were concerned obviously for her.  What did you decide to do?

Uwe Pickhan:   I thought she's young and innocent and she said, oh, here I am I want to help the world, I want to change the world, and she is too young to know about the bad people.   Because she must give money to the school and then she worked there, she does newspapers, and for her it's all normal.   For me, it sounds like Hare Krishna.   Prostitution. 

Interviewer:    Having come here with Simone, what do you intend to do now?

Uwe Pickhan:   We want to have our money back, and her stuff from there, and tomorrow we're leaving, home.  Because, if she's alone here, maybe she'd get brainwashed or....I don't know.  

Interviewer:     It's obviously a very emotional disturbance for you, your little sister, in this situation  What about the other students and other young people?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yesterday evening we had a meeting and it was all new for them, because a new confrontation, their little world was going down and...they don't believe us.   So we talked to them.  And they said, How can we trust you?   We answered, you must not trust us.   It's information for you, I'm here for my sister, to get her back home, and we want to inform you, that you know, what kind of school is this.

Interviewer:   Did you have any idea, when she first applied here, that there was all this background, there was all this history?

Uwe Pickhan: No.  My sister was alone in Guatemala, she learned Spanish there with Indian people, she was working on a banana plantation, all these things, and we were not scared, but with this information and background, this... bad things.

Interviewer:   Do you think that this organisation takes advantage of young people, young people's idealistic view of the world?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yes, I think so.  They catch them, ... meaning we can change the world and we can help good people, and they have to pay a lot of money before, she paid 2,000 and there are 12 other people so that is 24,000, that's a year's salary for a worker, I don't know.   And the building is in a very bad condition...they have no windows, they have to have plastic foil on the windows, and everything is dirty and old, so they make money with them.

Interviewer:  What would you say to anyone thinking of joining this organisation?

Uwe Pickhan:   Don't do that, be careful, read the Internet web pages, ask other people, and go to the Red Cross or some organisation like this, but not to Humana or the Tvind people.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Interviewer:  Now your sister is a very caring person and her ambition is to work in the Third World, work in Africa, and help people who are less fortunate than herself.   When you read this, you were concerned obviously for her.  What did you decide to do?

Uwe Pickhan:   I thought she's young and innocent and she said, oh, here I am I want to help the world, I want to change the world, and she is too young to know about the bad people.   Because she must give money to the school and then she worked there, she does newspapers, and for her it's all normal.   For me, it sounds like Hare Krishna.   Prostitution. 

Interviewer:    Having come here with Simone, what do you intend to do now?

Uwe Pickhan:   We want to have our money back, and her stuff from there, and tomorrow we're leaving, home.  Because, if she's alone here, maybe she'd get brainwashed or....I don't know.  

Interviewer:     It's obviously a very emotional disturbance for you, your little sister, in this situation  What about the other students and other young people?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yesterday evening we had a meeting and it was all new for them, because a new confrontation, their little world was going down and...they don't believe us.   So we talked to them.  And they said, How can we trust you?   We answered, you must not trust us.   It's information for you, I'm here for my sister, to get her back home, and we want to inform you, that you know, what kind of school is this.

Interviewer:   Did you have any idea, when she first applied here, that there was all this background, there was all this history?

Uwe Pickhan: No.  My sister was alone in Guatemala, she learned Spanish there with Indian people, she was working on a banana plantation, all these things, and we were not scared, but with this information and background, this... bad things.

Interviewer:   Do you think that this organisation takes advantage of young people, young people's idealistic view of the world?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yes, I think so.  They catch them, ... meaning we can change the world and we can help good people, and they have to pay a lot of money before, she paid 2,000 and there are 12 other people so that is 24,000, that's a year's salary for a worker, I don't know.   And the building is in a very bad condition...they have no windows, they have to have plastic foil on the windows, and everything is dirty and old, so they make money with them.

Interviewer:  What would you say to anyone thinking of joining this organisation?

Uwe Pickhan:   Don't do that, be careful, read the Internet web pages, ask other people, and go to the Red Cross or some organisation like this, but not to Humana or the Tvind people.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Uwe Pickhan:   I thought she's young and innocent and she said, oh, here I am I want to help the world, I want to change the world, and she is too young to know about the bad people.   Because she must give money to the school and then she worked there, she does newspapers, and for her it's all normal.   For me, it sounds like Hare Krishna.   Prostitution. 

Interviewer:    Having come here with Simone, what do you intend to do now?

Uwe Pickhan:   We want to have our money back, and her stuff from there, and tomorrow we're leaving, home.  Because, if she's alone here, maybe she'd get brainwashed or....I don't know.  

Interviewer:     It's obviously a very emotional disturbance for you, your little sister, in this situation  What about the other students and other young people?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yesterday evening we had a meeting and it was all new for them, because a new confrontation, their little world was going down and...they don't believe us.   So we talked to them.  And they said, How can we trust you?   We answered, you must not trust us.   It's information for you, I'm here for my sister, to get her back home, and we want to inform you, that you know, what kind of school is this.

Interviewer:   Did you have any idea, when she first applied here, that there was all this background, there was all this history?

Uwe Pickhan: No.  My sister was alone in Guatemala, she learned Spanish there with Indian people, she was working on a banana plantation, all these things, and we were not scared, but with this information and background, this... bad things.

Interviewer:   Do you think that this organisation takes advantage of young people, young people's idealistic view of the world?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yes, I think so.  They catch them, ... meaning we can change the world and we can help good people, and they have to pay a lot of money before, she paid 2,000 and there are 12 other people so that is 24,000, that's a year's salary for a worker, I don't know.   And the building is in a very bad condition...they have no windows, they have to have plastic foil on the windows, and everything is dirty and old, so they make money with them.

Interviewer:  What would you say to anyone thinking of joining this organisation?

Uwe Pickhan:   Don't do that, be careful, read the Internet web pages, ask other people, and go to the Red Cross or some organisation like this, but not to Humana or the Tvind people.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Interviewer:    Having come here with Simone, what do you intend to do now?

Uwe Pickhan:   We want to have our money back, and her stuff from there, and tomorrow we're leaving, home.  Because, if she's alone here, maybe she'd get brainwashed or....I don't know.  

Interviewer:     It's obviously a very emotional disturbance for you, your little sister, in this situation  What about the other students and other young people?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yesterday evening we had a meeting and it was all new for them, because a new confrontation, their little world was going down and...they don't believe us.   So we talked to them.  And they said, How can we trust you?   We answered, you must not trust us.   It's information for you, I'm here for my sister, to get her back home, and we want to inform you, that you know, what kind of school is this.

Interviewer:   Did you have any idea, when she first applied here, that there was all this background, there was all this history?

Uwe Pickhan: No.  My sister was alone in Guatemala, she learned Spanish there with Indian people, she was working on a banana plantation, all these things, and we were not scared, but with this information and background, this... bad things.

Interviewer:   Do you think that this organisation takes advantage of young people, young people's idealistic view of the world?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yes, I think so.  They catch them, ... meaning we can change the world and we can help good people, and they have to pay a lot of money before, she paid 2,000 and there are 12 other people so that is 24,000, that's a year's salary for a worker, I don't know.   And the building is in a very bad condition...they have no windows, they have to have plastic foil on the windows, and everything is dirty and old, so they make money with them.

Interviewer:  What would you say to anyone thinking of joining this organisation?

Uwe Pickhan:   Don't do that, be careful, read the Internet web pages, ask other people, and go to the Red Cross or some organisation like this, but not to Humana or the Tvind people.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Uwe Pickhan:   We want to have our money back, and her stuff from there, and tomorrow we're leaving, home.  Because, if she's alone here, maybe she'd get brainwashed or....I don't know.  

Interviewer:     It's obviously a very emotional disturbance for you, your little sister, in this situation  What about the other students and other young people?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yesterday evening we had a meeting and it was all new for them, because a new confrontation, their little world was going down and...they don't believe us.   So we talked to them.  And they said, How can we trust you?   We answered, you must not trust us.   It's information for you, I'm here for my sister, to get her back home, and we want to inform you, that you know, what kind of school is this.

Interviewer:   Did you have any idea, when she first applied here, that there was all this background, there was all this history?

Uwe Pickhan: No.  My sister was alone in Guatemala, she learned Spanish there with Indian people, she was working on a banana plantation, all these things, and we were not scared, but with this information and background, this... bad things.

Interviewer:   Do you think that this organisation takes advantage of young people, young people's idealistic view of the world?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yes, I think so.  They catch them, ... meaning we can change the world and we can help good people, and they have to pay a lot of money before, she paid 2,000 and there are 12 other people so that is 24,000, that's a year's salary for a worker, I don't know.   And the building is in a very bad condition...they have no windows, they have to have plastic foil on the windows, and everything is dirty and old, so they make money with them.

Interviewer:  What would you say to anyone thinking of joining this organisation?

Uwe Pickhan:   Don't do that, be careful, read the Internet web pages, ask other people, and go to the Red Cross or some organisation like this, but not to Humana or the Tvind people.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Interviewer:     It's obviously a very emotional disturbance for you, your little sister, in this situation  What about the other students and other young people?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yesterday evening we had a meeting and it was all new for them, because a new confrontation, their little world was going down and...they don't believe us.   So we talked to them.  And they said, How can we trust you?   We answered, you must not trust us.   It's information for you, I'm here for my sister, to get her back home, and we want to inform you, that you know, what kind of school is this.

Interviewer:   Did you have any idea, when she first applied here, that there was all this background, there was all this history?

Uwe Pickhan: No.  My sister was alone in Guatemala, she learned Spanish there with Indian people, she was working on a banana plantation, all these things, and we were not scared, but with this information and background, this... bad things.

Interviewer:   Do you think that this organisation takes advantage of young people, young people's idealistic view of the world?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yes, I think so.  They catch them, ... meaning we can change the world and we can help good people, and they have to pay a lot of money before, she paid 2,000 and there are 12 other people so that is 24,000, that's a year's salary for a worker, I don't know.   And the building is in a very bad condition...they have no windows, they have to have plastic foil on the windows, and everything is dirty and old, so they make money with them.

Interviewer:  What would you say to anyone thinking of joining this organisation?

Uwe Pickhan:   Don't do that, be careful, read the Internet web pages, ask other people, and go to the Red Cross or some organisation like this, but not to Humana or the Tvind people.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Uwe Pickhan:   Yesterday evening we had a meeting and it was all new for them, because a new confrontation, their little world was going down and...they don't believe us.   So we talked to them.  And they said, How can we trust you?   We answered, you must not trust us.   It's information for you, I'm here for my sister, to get her back home, and we want to inform you, that you know, what kind of school is this.

Interviewer:   Did you have any idea, when she first applied here, that there was all this background, there was all this history?

Uwe Pickhan: No.  My sister was alone in Guatemala, she learned Spanish there with Indian people, she was working on a banana plantation, all these things, and we were not scared, but with this information and background, this... bad things.

Interviewer:   Do you think that this organisation takes advantage of young people, young people's idealistic view of the world?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yes, I think so.  They catch them, ... meaning we can change the world and we can help good people, and they have to pay a lot of money before, she paid 2,000 and there are 12 other people so that is 24,000, that's a year's salary for a worker, I don't know.   And the building is in a very bad condition...they have no windows, they have to have plastic foil on the windows, and everything is dirty and old, so they make money with them.

Interviewer:  What would you say to anyone thinking of joining this organisation?

Uwe Pickhan:   Don't do that, be careful, read the Internet web pages, ask other people, and go to the Red Cross or some organisation like this, but not to Humana or the Tvind people.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Interviewer:   Did you have any idea, when she first applied here, that there was all this background, there was all this history?

Uwe Pickhan: No.  My sister was alone in Guatemala, she learned Spanish there with Indian people, she was working on a banana plantation, all these things, and we were not scared, but with this information and background, this... bad things.

Interviewer:   Do you think that this organisation takes advantage of young people, young people's idealistic view of the world?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yes, I think so.  They catch them, ... meaning we can change the world and we can help good people, and they have to pay a lot of money before, she paid 2,000 and there are 12 other people so that is 24,000, that's a year's salary for a worker, I don't know.   And the building is in a very bad condition...they have no windows, they have to have plastic foil on the windows, and everything is dirty and old, so they make money with them.

Interviewer:  What would you say to anyone thinking of joining this organisation?

Uwe Pickhan:   Don't do that, be careful, read the Internet web pages, ask other people, and go to the Red Cross or some organisation like this, but not to Humana or the Tvind people.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Uwe Pickhan: No.  My sister was alone in Guatemala, she learned Spanish there with Indian people, she was working on a banana plantation, all these things, and we were not scared, but with this information and background, this... bad things.

Interviewer:   Do you think that this organisation takes advantage of young people, young people's idealistic view of the world?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yes, I think so.  They catch them, ... meaning we can change the world and we can help good people, and they have to pay a lot of money before, she paid 2,000 and there are 12 other people so that is 24,000, that's a year's salary for a worker, I don't know.   And the building is in a very bad condition...they have no windows, they have to have plastic foil on the windows, and everything is dirty and old, so they make money with them.

Interviewer:  What would you say to anyone thinking of joining this organisation?

Uwe Pickhan:   Don't do that, be careful, read the Internet web pages, ask other people, and go to the Red Cross or some organisation like this, but not to Humana or the Tvind people.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Interviewer:   Do you think that this organisation takes advantage of young people, young people's idealistic view of the world?

Uwe Pickhan:   Yes, I think so.  They catch them, ... meaning we can change the world and we can help good people, and they have to pay a lot of money before, she paid 2,000 and there are 12 other people so that is 24,000, that's a year's salary for a worker, I don't know.   And the building is in a very bad condition...they have no windows, they have to have plastic foil on the windows, and everything is dirty and old, so they make money with them.

Interviewer:  What would you say to anyone thinking of joining this organisation?

Uwe Pickhan:   Don't do that, be careful, read the Internet web pages, ask other people, and go to the Red Cross or some organisation like this, but not to Humana or the Tvind people.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Uwe Pickhan:   Yes, I think so.  They catch them, ... meaning we can change the world and we can help good people, and they have to pay a lot of money before, she paid 2,000 and there are 12 other people so that is 24,000, that's a year's salary for a worker, I don't know.   And the building is in a very bad condition...they have no windows, they have to have plastic foil on the windows, and everything is dirty and old, so they make money with them.

Interviewer:  What would you say to anyone thinking of joining this organisation?

Uwe Pickhan:   Don't do that, be careful, read the Internet web pages, ask other people, and go to the Red Cross or some organisation like this, but not to Humana or the Tvind people.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Interviewer:  What would you say to anyone thinking of joining this organisation?

Uwe Pickhan:   Don't do that, be careful, read the Internet web pages, ask other people, and go to the Red Cross or some organisation like this, but not to Humana or the Tvind people.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Uwe Pickhan:   Don't do that, be careful, read the Internet web pages, ask other people, and go to the Red Cross or some organisation like this, but not to Humana or the Tvind people.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Interviewer:    How did you feel when you were finding out more and more of that information?

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Uwe Pickhan:   I can't leave her alone, so, we flew together and we go together.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Simone Pickhan, 21

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Interviewer:    I've heard from your brother and his concern when you looked on the Internet and on the web pages and found all this. When he found the page and you saw it what were your first reactions?

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Simone Pickhan:     Well first I got the phone call from the girl who's in my school and she told me I have some really scary information and she called me just a little bit on the phone and we were talking a lot about some doubts we had in the school before just between all the people who were at the school.  And then I thought, well, mmm, maybe it could be true, maybe not, because we are....people who are actually already there in Africa, they seem to be all right, but then I saw the web page and...where there are lots of general information about the organisation but which was the more scary thing was we read the reports of the ex-members....this was something that really concerned.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Interviewer:    And what did they say that scared you?

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Simone Pickhan      Well, for example, three of these reports are about members who are actually in the Teachers' Group   -  this is a higher level of Tvind  - or the Humana organisation, or however you call it   -  and they talked about brainwashing, they talked about women are getting forced to abortions, they are talking about getting forced to stay at their organisation, when they actually wanted to leave, and stuff like this.  But after there was one report, of a guy who was in Africa, and he said when they had problems, especially when they got sick, they didn't get any help of the project leaders, they get totally ignored.   And also, the communication system in Africa was really really bad, like the parents couldn't actually contact them, the persons in Africa.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Interviewer  (To Uwe Pickhan):     Simone's just been saying about what people said on the Internet, but, you had a meeting with the school today and they have said that anyone can leave and that you can have your money back.    So what's the problem?

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Uwe Pickhan:     I don't know.  They confirmed it all.   All the Internet information and I said I want to.....[phone rings]   

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Interviewer:    If they were all the things that are said about them in the Internet, would they not have made some kind of way of getting Simone into another room, kept her away from you, and they would have said, she's perfectly happy, there's no problem.  They're going to let you take her away, and they're going to give you the money that she's paid.  Yes?

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Uwe Pickhan:   So they told me.  And I said, here's my hand, where's the money?   I will have the money on my hand, and not on the account.   I can wait until I'm 80.  And she said, it's a problem, you can't have the money.  So we asked, we paid a lot of money to you, where is it, you must have some?   She said oh, it's all so expensive, electricity will cost 10,000, we have no money.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Interviewer:     So although you're confident you will be able to take Simone back with you, you don't think you'll see the money again.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.

Uwe Pickhan:  I don't think so.